Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am grateful for the opportunity to address the House on this matter. It is very important that we are here again, discussing housing and homelessness for possibly the seventh or eighth week in a row. That is where the focus has been for everybody in here. It is our number one priority and as I said last week, it is wrong to argue otherwise. Week in and week out, everyone in this Dáil chooses to make this the number one issue and that is right.

We have today's figures, which the Government published. We count them and put them out there. Nobody is trying to hide from these figures. We admit that they are not acceptable and Deputy Gino Kenny is absolutely right in that regard. Regardless of ideology, nobody would accept homelessness as normal or want to accept it as thus. I acknowledge Deputy Kenny was not referring to me personally but my party does not accept or want that either and neither does any other party in this Dáil. That is not what we are about. This House has agreed to spend €6 billion to fund solutions to homelessness and rough sleeping. There is a commitment there in the form of funding.

Today I met all of the housing teams from the local authorities to discuss delivery timelines, moving projects forward, trebling our pipeline of projects and so forth. Deputies Cowen, Ó Broin and others have been saying for months that we need to improve the delivery timelines and so forth. In my discussions with the housing teams I make it clear that the minimum target in Rebuilding Ireland, which is to reach 10,000 social housing units per year has cross-party support. Many Deputies in this House want to do more and that is fine but we must have a plan to get there. However, I make it clear to everyone concerned that there is cross-party support for this. The Government has announced the amount to be spent but everybody here agrees that it is the least we will do. I stress to the local authorities that Deputies view them as the number one, front-line bodies to solve this problem. Local authority housing is key and local authorities, in conjunction with all of the other stakeholders, must drive this. We want them to do that and every week in the Dáil, Deputies argue that local authorities should do this and the Government agrees. I stressed to the local authorities, on behalf of everyone in the Dáil, that everyone here supports this. Some Deputies want them to do more but the money is there and the local authorities must make it happen and put projects in place. I do not want to bring ideology into this at all because we are all committed to solving this problem and if we are not, we should not be in here.

I welcome the discussion on this Bill. However, it is misplaced and unworkable, albeit well-intended, legislation that will not solve the problem. The use of these devices is wrong. I do not agree with these devices, which are not needed. Their use is not something I would encourage but I do not believe this legislation will solve the problem or even help the situation. It is not an appropriate response. We are in this House every week trying to explain what we are doing. Again this evening we heard some Deputies saying that the Government is doing nothing and that nothing is happening but that is not fair. It is not fair to all of the people who are working, week in and week out, to improve the situation. It is not fair to all of the people in the various housing bodies, non-governmental organisations and voluntary groups who are working night after night and week after week, spending fundraised and taxpayers' money trying to help people. People still come into this Chamber, week after week and say that nothing is being done. I have no problem saying that not enough is being done but it is wrong to say that nothing is being done. That does not reflect the work that is being done night after night and week after week.

I welcome the debate on this issue and would welcome more solutions to address the problem. We do not see this legislation as a solution, however. I accept that these devices are wrong and unnecessary but this legislation will not help rough sleepers or address their issues. That is what we need to face up to here. The issues faced by rough sleepers are complex and require nuanced and comprehensive solutions. A simple change to the planning code is not going to provide that. Some Deputies argued that the legislation aims to send out a clear message and I can accept the motive behind it. However, the legislation is unworkable and will simply complicate what we are trying to do, which is to prevent rough sleeping. We want to be able to help rough sleepers into different housing solutions, whether that is emergency or permanent. Mention was made of the Housing First option, which works very well in Scandinavian countries, in Canada and elsewhere. We introduced it here in the last year and it is working quite well. Approximately 180 people have gone through that system and while that is not nearly enough, it is certainly a solution for some rough sleepers. The idea is to get them a home first and then to wrap the services around them. In the past, the approach was to try to get the services in place first before moving rough sleepers into homes. We are turning that on its head and rightly so. We are working with the Peter McVerry Trust, Focus Ireland and others to make that happen. We are using taxpayers' money to make it happen and we want to do more of that. That is what we should do, along with all of the other solutions.

I am not convinced that this Bill is going to help. We are all in agreement that no person should have to sleep on the streets without shelter at any time of the year. The figures are horrific and there is no denying that. The latest figures indicate that there are 190 rough sleepers. I would argue that the core figure of rough sleepers is between 160 and 180, for whom we are trying to provide solutions. At the same time, there are far too many people living in hotels and other emergency accommodation, numbering approximately 8,500 and we must intervene with different solutions for those people.

Rough sleeping is an issue that we particularly want to address, which is why the Minister will announce changes to the cold weather initiative. We will put in place more emergency beds of a permanent nature. There will be an additional 200 such beds, building on the increased number of emergency beds that were put in place last year. We want to make sure that we can say, hand on heart, that there is a bed available for every rough sleeper and that such people could engage with the homeless services, although not everyone will want to do that. We try on a nightly basis, through both formal and informal arrangements, to engage with people and to encourage them to use the system. I understand that some people are afraid to engage with the services, having had a bad experience in the past. We are trying to provide a top-class service in all of the new facilities. While nobody wants to be in emergency accommodation, we are trying to improve the service and the standards therein. We are also trying to ensure that the existing facilities are improved. That said, all of these facilities are emergency in nature and are only meant to be temporary. We need to find permanent solutions and that is what we are trying to do. By the middle of this year, we had found an emergency solution for more than 2,000 people. Moreover, more than 600 people who would have been in emergency accommodation in hotels have found homes through various housing schemes. That is what we have to do to get ahead of the figures. It will take a bit more time because with roughly 88 homeless presentations per month, the problem is still getting worse. It is hard to get ahead of the figures. All of the interventions that were made last year and all of the solutions that were put in place were not enough. More money will be spent next year on more solutions. I would be very happy if Deputies would come into this House with more ideas and more solutions that could make a real difference. Some good ideas have been put forward and we have tried to implement them but I am not hearing any additional magic solutions over and above what we are already doing. We are committed to building 10,000 social housing units and are doing that. There have been good proposals in respect of affordable housing and other options and we will do more on that. However, nobody in here is providing additional solutions week after week. However, if good suggestions are made that we believe will make a difference, we will try to get them off the ground.

We will try to do that, genuinely, because the resources are there to do it.

Deputies Danny and Michael Healy-Rae raised a couple of issues around vacant properties. I repeat to both Deputies that there are solutions to this issue. If anyone has a vacant property, we urge them to bring it forward and talk to the local authority. There are a number of schemes they can avail of to put the properties into use. I point out to Deputy Breathnach that Louth County Council has been a fine example of how to do this, and when people do not come forward, it can take their properties through other means. There are many options for people who own properties but cannot afford to get them back into the system. We will spend money on that and we will make changes to the system to make it a little easier. There has been a lot of feedback on the repair and lease-back initiative, for example, that it is too complicated, with too much red tape and requiring too long a commitment. We will make changes to reflect that. We do change things when we get feedback.

As I said, the Minister, Deputy Murphy, has announced an extra 200 emergency beds. They will be up and running during December and all beds will be in place by 18 December. In addition, other temporary emergency beds are being put in place for when the weather conditions get so bad that the people who do not normally engage with any service come forward. We have allowed for that and will try to deal with it as well. It is hoped that will give an opportunity to engage with them on long-term solutions. I think the Housing First approach is the right option. We need to do more of that and it is something I hope we roll out a lot more.

Deputies made the point that local authorities need to lead this and I cannot stress enough that they are leading. We have put them front and centre. At this morning's discussion, the head of the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, Michael Walsh, said that in the past local authorities were driving the construction of social housing but they were told seven or eight years ago to stop and just to buy, lease and so on. He said we have now put them back in the position to do that. We are giving local authorities increased teams, increased powers and increased finances to be back in the space of leading the challenge to deliver more social housing. The approved housing bodies also do excellent work and I have asked local authorities and councillors to strengthen their relationships with them. Any proposed solution that comes through an approved housing body comes through the local authority as well. The local authority is in charge of that and it says yes or no before it comes to us. Local authorities are at the front of this and I want to reinforce that point, given it was raised in the debate.

Deputy Ó Broin raised the point about repeat presentations. We are trying to intervene where, for whatever reason, people end up in a property or housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme and it does not work out. In some cases, the landlord withdraws the property, but in others it does not work out for the individual or family that goes into the home. We try to work with them more closely, perhaps by providing more services in order that they can stay in the house. For some families who are homeless for a long time or have a very complicated case, a traditional family home is a good way to get back into operating their own home in a secure environment with extra services and then, eventually, move on to a house. The Deputy is probably raising two different categories but he is focusing on those who were in a rented house or HAP house and it did not work out due to reasons associated with the landlord. That is something we are trying to deal with. We have put in increased teams to make sure we do not have people who come back again and have to re-engage. There is nothing worse than being in a homeless situation and living in a hotel or bed and breakfast, then finding a housing solution only to be back in the same situation six months later. We try to intervene to prevent that happening.

There is a pipeline of projects but we have told the local authorities it is not enough and that we want it literally doubled or trebled. We have asked them to engage in a new system to make it happen more quickly and they are up for that. They have done it in the past and they are in that position. Now we have to make it happen even more quickly. I am asking all local authorities with their councillors to get involved with us on the new timelines and the Part 8 process to make this happen. Again, we have stressed that the local authority management should engage much more with councillors and the community to get acceptance for projects at a much earlier stage. The issue of Traveller accommodation was raised and it is one on which are trying to focus, with changes, to make sure we get that money spent, as well as increasing the budget.

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