Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Are we going to have to have something like that, to take that drastic a measure? I hope not, in our lovely democracy. I am glad that my learned friend has arrived and that he can give me an odd tip here and there. The actions of the banking sector and of receivers up and down the country would indicate that we have really made no meaningful progress.

Questions must be asked, then, as to whether we can take anything in this Bill seriously. I notice the word "probability" in the Bill. That is not good enough language for me. It has to be definite language, not probable. It has to be language such as "will" and "shall", not "may". Will we be here in another six years with the criminal justice Bill 2023, still discussing what we are going to do about corruption and white-collar crime? We have seen what happened with the Paradise Papers and the banking inquiry. We have seen what happened in America, where countless bankers are locked up behind bars having gone through due process. I am greatly in favour of due process. There is nobody behind bars here and trials have been sabotaged. All is not well in the courts and judicial system. It is anything but well. I have had information given to me in the last number of days that is very concerning. I did go into it last night and will not tonight because I am checking out the facts. It is very worrying and involves a long period of cases not being properly investigated, cases being buried and justice not being served or seen to be served and people escaping.

On dealing with white-collar crime, we did it about 15 years ago. I was on the county council at the time. We all got an e-mail saying we were not to give a box of sweets to the office staff, which I often did because they were always being good to me and they were helpful when we would go in asking this, that and the other. That was all stopped. We were to be totally transparent but the foreign holidays and all the big stuff went on all the time. All law is for the little people. God, I could not buy a person a drink if I met him out because it was considered to be bribery. Yet the foreign holidays and the gravy train, the golf dinners and tours and everything else went on unabated. There is mention in this Bill of all those things being stopped but there are too many words like "probable" being suggested. It must be definite and certain and the law must be applied fairly to the big people as well as the ordinary people. Na daoine beaga always, they get all the law and there is no law for the rich.

It is happening. The dogs in the street know it now to their cost and, as I said, the cost to the State. We are talking about a housing crisis here and we are arguing about how many houses were built. They were not built in my county or any other county. There is an amount of people being made homeless by the State, by the banks through the organs of the State, the courts, and through the thuggery of receivers and bully boys and intimidation. There is the black market money they are getting for that and the costs that are loaded onto the loans then, and the vulture funds - do not even mention them. We must salute them. I had an amendment to the Finance Bill tabled with Deputy Fitzmaurice that was ruled out of order. Where we had a family in a house that owed so much and the bank was willing to settle for so much, the bank would not settle with the family, a business or a farmer. It sold the debt to the vulture funds for 20% or maybe up to 30% with a stretch, or sometimes 17%, and then all hell broke lose. We gave it to those vulture funds.

The Taoiseach says he is not happy and does not like it. I do not see him standing outside the banks with his hashtag, #leoforfairnessandjusticefortheordinaryfamilies. He would do it for the social welfare lads alright and take pictures and everything else. The genie is out of the bottle. We need to do something. We need stronger language in this Bill.

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