Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I share the Deputy's very strong support for the hospice movement. In my constituency, I have helped to secure funding for the St. Francis hospice in Blanchardstown, ensuring that it was opened and staffed when I became Minister for Health and building on the work of my constituency predecessor, Brian Lenihan, who ensured that public land was provided on which to build it. It was paid for primarily through funds raised in the community. As Minister for Health I also gave commitments to the new hospice being built for Wicklow and the recently opened hospice in County Mayo. Everyone in the House is very supportive of the hospice movement which provides people with the possibility to spend their last days with dignity and care, whether in the hospices or receiving hospice care in their own homes.

The specific issue raised by the Deputy was discussed at Cabinet yesterday. I have asked the Ministers, Deputies Paschal Donohoe and Simon Harris, to examine the matter and come up with a solution or at least a clear answer in the coming weeks. The Deputy will know that the difference between section 38 and section 39 bodies is not Jesuitical. It is there in law in the Health Act, which I believe Deputy Martin himself brought through the House. People who work for section 38 bodies are public servants and are paid for by the State while those who work for section 39 bodies are generally employees of charities or foundations or occasionally of businesses. The way that the Government funds those section 39 bodies, which include most of our hospices, is through a block grant over which the hospices have significant autonomy, and they decide what they do with those funds. Some of it will go towards paying staff while other parts of it will go towards equipment, possibly building costs, debt reduction or other costs.

Over the coming weeks, we will have to assess whether the increase of the block grants, which many of these bodies have been awarded, was there to cover pay restoration in part. We have to protect taxpayers and it should be borne in mind that the people who use hospice services and donate towards them are also taxpayers. We cannot have a situation where we give a section 39 body the same money twice. If the increase in the block grant that they received in recent years was sufficient to cover pay restoration, that is a separate issue than if it is not, and this is the question that will be examined.

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