Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the chance to comment on this amazingly critical issue within the European Union for the people of Catalonia and Spain. We must be careful in terms of giving advice and taking sides because of the details, complexity and compassion on various sides of the argument in Catalonia and Spain. If outsiders were discussing our future sovereignty or the management of our constitutional affairs we would be very sensitive to a lack of understanding of that complexity.

I reiterate the advice of European Green Party leaders such as Philippe Lamberts, MEP, who said earlier today that the European Union, of which Ireland is a member and the relevant council of which the Minister is a member, should seek to promote mediation as best it can rather than taking sides. That can only be done if parties are not seen to have a pre-conceived notion of how the mediation will go before entering it. Aware of the need for calm heads, we are looking for the Spanish Government to refrain from suspending Catalonian autonomy and in turn calling on the Catalan Parliament to refrain from declaring unilateral independence and for its leadership to return to the Senate session in Madrid which is to take place this Thursday or Friday to open the possibility of dialogue. If the leaders of the Catalan Administration went to that session there is a good chance the Spanish Prime Minister would also attend and the process of dialogue that is clearly needed would be started.

I read the Minister's speech with interest and agree with his fundamental argument that one has to respect constitutional rights and the law. Irish people understand how the loss of respect for the law can signal approaching national self-determination. It is interesting that during the War of Independence or the wider process of seeking independence from Britain the real moment of independence was not the use of physical force but, rather, when we set up our own constitutional courts. That was when there was a defining sense that British rule no longer applied because we did not recognise or respect their law. Irish people also recognise that process began when the public responded to physical violence by the British state, which accelerated the process towards not recognising the constitutional right of the British Government to have any influence on our determination. In that context, I join other Members in recognising the obvious but important point that the exercise of violence by the Spanish police during the referendum in Catalonia was a very self-defeating action. All Members understand how that can inflame matters and change the sense of what is constitutionally correct.

Deputy Darragh O'Brien suggested that elections might be part of the process of calming matters down. Elections may form part of the imposition of the article 155 process by the Spanish Government. Opposition leaders in the Catalan Parliament are similarly calling for elections as a way of trying to maintain a democratic process and stepping back from confrontation. That is a possible mechanism. I stand by the use of referendums even though they are difficult procedures at the best of times. They are not just the tool of the dictator as some have recently called them in public commentary.

My understanding is that there have been two referendums in Catalonia in recent years, both of which gave similar results in that approximately 2 million out of the 5.4 million registered voters voted for independence. Those opposed to independence argued at the time that supporters of their position should not turn up to vote. In these circumstances one runs into difficulties. Perhaps elections could be used as a way to find an alternative avenue for the wishes of the people in Catalonia on both sides of the independence argument in order that they have a voice and a level of representation which would be renewed on the basis of what has happened in the past few months. We can only imagine the repercussion this has had among the population of the area. Regarding the issue of referenda, the turnout and so on, it is interesting that this is occurring at a time when in some ways there is a questioning of our country's constitutional referendums. The reason the Good Friday Agreement referendum was so significant is that there was a turnout of 81% in the North and that 71%, a clear majority which had to reflect in some ways a significant proportion of both traditions in the North, supported the Agreement. I am nervous about the Taoiseach's commentary on this in recent times. People say it reflects on what the exact application of the Good Friday Agreement might be. I am just making the point that one must be careful about the interpretation or use of referendums and reflect on the numbers involved. Again I cite the example of the Good Friday Agreement; the turnout was relatively low in our jurisdiction. It was approximately 56%. That would probably be slightly higher than average for a normal referendum, but the fact that it was a 94% vote in favour of the Good Friday Agreement was hugely significant in allowing us to advance the peace process because there was such consensus. I use these examples to make the point that elections at this time could provide some space for mediation and dialogue rather than just an attritional fight between the Spanish Government and the Catalonian Administration.

I return to the simple call from the European Green Party. We have a very strong party in Catalonia, and our Spanish colleagues are very well known to us. As a European party, we are looking on and our key message is: step back from the brink, allow dialogue to occur, go to the Senate in Madrid in the coming days, step back from suspending Catalan autonomy, step back from the declaration of unilateral independence and, in a way that is hard for us to foresee and, as I said, would be wrong for us to pre-empt, whatever the outcome, try to slow this moment down to a moment of dialogue and discussion rather than a clash between the two sides in this incredibly complex and important debate.

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