Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I have listened to the likes of him and others in Europe saying that Ireland is a special case, which it is. I have listened to the UK saying the same. I welcome some of what Prime Minister May said a few days ago. However, what I cannot understand is, if we are the cherished child and such a special case, why they do not eliminate this side of it and settle on Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement, which is important, the trade between the UK and Ireland and how we have become intertwined down the years. We might have fought the UK for a long time, but we still export a great deal to it. That is especially the case for rural Ireland, be it in terms of milk, beef, sheep, poultry, pigs or whatever. We are intertwined in terms of our exports and imports.

People are holding us up as the trophy kid and we are caught in an awkward situation. Everyone knows that this is one country with an invisible line. We will be back where we were years ago trying to get stuff across fields in the middle of the night. That should not happen. If the UK wants to have that relationship with Ireland and the EU believes that we are so special, the first step should be for everyone to recognise the Good Friday Agreement, to keep it in place and to ensure all trade between the UK and Ireland regardless of the outcome for those countries that are not on islands and are a bloc away. If we are to believe what is being said by both sides, then that appears to be the part on which there is agreement. Why, therefore, do we not nail it down?

We must put it up to Europe. When this deal is finished in 2019 and there is a lead-in period or whatever, the Irish people deserve a say on it. If matters do not work out as they must, we cannot afford to have a border or not to trade with the UK. We may have more exports to Europe and the rest of the world in money terms, but tonnage creates the most jobs in rural areas. It is vital that we stand up. I worry about the idea of a majority vote on the deal, which is the direction that the EU seems to be going in order to leave the troublesome kid behind so that it does not have to listen to us.

It is not helpful that the group in Europe with which the Minister's party if affiliated, the European People's Party, EPP, has stated in recent weeks that reform of the CAP budget should be put off until 2023 because we do not know where we are going. The EPP also stated that we did not know what commitments needed to be made to the so-called new European army that has been envisaged. This is not a helpful message to be sending out. As a member of a party that has Irish representatives in the EPP, will the Minister quell this talk once and for all?

People can reflect and ask why all of this happened. In my opinion, Europe lost the run of itself. When we joined the EU and traded goods, it was a great thing, but it basically went from that to trying to own people. When we were in trouble, we saw who our friends were. The UK and other countries gave us money, but a gun was essentially put to our heads by the same so-called friends that we have today. If a dog bites once, people should always be wary of it. We need to be wary of all of the nice, fancy talk that we are hearing.

Were Europe good to Ireland, it would do a deal to give us a special rate on our debt. I am not saying that we should not repay it because that debate is over. Rather, we should get a special rate over, for example, 100 years. That would help us, particularly in light of the current uncertainty. Our repayments would be reduced and we would be repaying both the principal and the interest. I put this suggestion to the Department of Finance during the Government formation talks. It would give us room to deliver on housing needs, which Deputy Boyd Barrett and others know is crucial, and hospital services around the country. These two issues are pulling the country down. We would have money or fiscal space while staying within the so-called fiscal rules to which we signed up.

I listened to last week's speeches from the EU claiming that everything was hunky-dory in the garden again, we had gone through a tough period and everyone was back to believing that we were the greatest thing since sliced pan. While polls might show the case to be different in many countries, we could get a different answer if we spoke to people on the ground. Some good things were done, but if a parent punishes a child badly enough, the child will not like it and there will be resentment. I see it on the ground. Perhaps the west coast has more resentment but, from speaking to people, opinions waver.

The EU thinks it has ridden the wave and that it is away again and can do what it likes. It might have a lot of different stuff coming at it. There is one thing the Minister has fought for and always stood up for. If the EU thinks it will control our tax system and if it goes and takes what we are doing away, the game will be up for us. We will have a decision to make then. Every country should have control over what it does. Let us argue about the rates and what we do. Why do we need a Dáil if the EU starts trying to control everything? I worry about that coming down the road. I know the Minister is doing his best out there and I am not criticising him in any way. The smaller countries or the countries that were branded the PIGS at one stage need to stick together and not let the bigger boys in the class do what they want. When one looks at television and sees Macron and Merkel in Italy, it is obvious that they think they control the whole show. That is not good and people start resenting it. The electorate in Germany went to the polls and said they would give them a bit of a shock but not because they liked someone else. That will happen in other countries. We need to ensure that we get a few countries that will work with us.

I ask the Minister to address the situation with the CAP because it is worrying. It is a statement that was made and a proposal. The uncertainty for the farming community needs to end. Ultimately, the farming community relies a great deal on CAP. It is our own money we are dealing with. We are now paying more to the EU than what we get. Let us not be the beggars who go with the bowl. It is our own stuff we are sending in. As a result of the uncertainty in that and in light of Brexit, clarification is needed. I also encourage the people who are doing the negotiation to sit down and start talking and not to play it out in the media every five minutes or by means of tweeting. If they are in tough negotiations, it should be man to man or woman to woman, whatever way it will be played out. It is not helpful because sometimes someone will say the wrong thing and it could put the whole process back, which is not helpful to anybody.

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