Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Deputy raised a number of issues. He started by referring to public sector reform and the OECD report. That report noted that the Public Service Reform Plan 2014-2016 was very successful, by and large, in terms of completing the majority of the activities it set out. The report outlined key lessons and findings. On the subsequent points raised by the Deputy on sections 38 and 39 organisations, it is clear that the section 38 agencies are bound by public service pay policy. Section 39 agencies are somewhat different. However, the key point about this morning's reports is that the HSE itself conducted these audits and found these discrepancies. There has been a history with these issues in the past in other agencies. Now the audits in the agencies are being conducted by the HSE, it is finding out these facts and bringing them to public attention and for action by the Government. That is critical. In addition, the new Charities Regulator has been in place in recent years and is doing very effective work. We now have an organisation tasked with dealing with charities that do not have proper governance and are not abiding by the rules. The regulator has the ability to initiate and carry out inquiries and it has already done that. The charities sector is becoming increasingly aware of the challenges around governance and the need for proper financial reporting, auditing and so forth.

The Deputy referred to the mix between the public and private sectors in the health services. We have that mix at present. There is also the history of the religious being involved. The Minister for Health is bringing forward actions to begin to address this. He will analyse it and decide what is the way forward in terms of separation. Currently, there is a mix of voluntary and public hospitals, as can be seen with the example of Holles Street hospital, and there is also the involvement of the religious in the past. There would be many complex issues in a move to a purely State-run hospital service as we have many voluntary hospitals. However, the Minister is determined to examine and address that and to assess what the pathway forward might be.

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