Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I join my colleague, Deputy McGrath, in welcoming the establishment of this very important commission of investigation, which I do not doubt the Government will formally establish in the next couple of weeks. At this early stage, I also welcome the nomination of Mr. Justice Cooke to take charge of it. While arrangements have to be made for accommodation, location, staffing and resources, it is to be hoped the commission will be fully up and running within the next couple of weeks.

A question has been raised about the draft terms of reference. I understand the Attorney General has stated that the House can either approve the draft terms of reference or not, but it cannot amend them. While I accept that this is the legal position, if the Taoiseach is of a mind to change the draft terms of reference, I suggest that he might come back to the Oireachtas to get approval. We have approved the draft terms of reference in good faith on the basis that there will be no change to them prior to the Minister's formal establishment of the commission by statutory instrument. We can operate in good faith on that basis.

I welcome the commission. It has been called for over recent months. As Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, I was neutral on the matter until I examined it as part of our considerations of Project Eagle when the committee came to the firm conclusion that this commission of investigation should be established forthwith.

Fianna Fáil is pleased with the terms of reference, which include examination of the disposal strategy by NAMA of its Northern Ireland loan book portfolio, and consideration of the minimum price supplied. This is a very important issue. There were many technical discussions about what discount rate was being used. I have come to the view that the minimum price was set by the bidder that had made an earlier submission for up to £1.3 billion. The format was restrictive. It was not a publicly identified sales process and various conditions were attached to it. The person had to have the money on the table and there would not be any pre-financing agreements to be put in place. That really limited the scope of those who could bid. I believe that to be one of the reasons we had such a specific minimum price set.

There is a need to look at the management of the sales process, as the Committee of Public Accounts concluded in respect of NAMA's sales process. The commission should also look at the Northern Ireland advisory committee and how NAMA handled the conflicts of interest. I think it was far too laid back. The Committee of Public Accounts criticised NAMA in its report. There were conflicts of interest at an early stage and, although NAMA should have dealt with them in a timely fashion, it never did so adequately. There should also be examination of the contacts and discussions between the Department of Finance in the South and the Minister of Finance in Northern Ireland prior to the formal launch of the Project Eagle bid.

I welcome that the commission of investigation will be able to issue a recommendation as it sees fit. People will ask how long this will go on. That is the burning question. I am pleased that, according to the draft terms of reference, an interim report is to be presented to the Taoiseach within three months of the date of the commission's establishment. If it is established in mid-June, we would expect to be discussing the interim report before the end of September when we come back after the summer recess. It should be in the Taoiseach's hands by that time. There is then scope for adding further modules to the investigation as time goes along.

The Committee of Public Accounts did find that it was not appropriate for NAMA as a contracting body to meet Cerberus representatives the day before the Project Eagle bid closing date. We also found that it was not procedurally appropriate for the Minister for Finance to meet the same people on the same day, and I have no doubt that Mr. Justice Cooke will examine those issues. We were firmly of the view that the sale of Project Eagle was not a well-designed process and that the strategy pursued by NAMA included restrictions of such significance that it could be described as seriously deficient. It was the opinion of the committee that NAMA was unable to demonstrate that by pursuing such a strategy, it got value for money for the Irish State in respect of the price achieved.

The Committee of Public Accounts will pass to the commission all documentation that came to it. The committee members are happy and willing to assist in any way we can, including by providing the letters received from NAMA on 19 April 2017 and the committee's response on 15 May 2017, which came after the publication of the draft terms of reference.

If I may say so, the Committee of Public Accounts did outstanding work and produced a great report at absolutely no additional cost whatever to the taxpayer. Not a penny did we incur. It was all done using the facilities here in the Houses of the Oireachtas and by the members of the committee, whereas we are now putting forward €10 million for this. I hope we get value for money.

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