Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Maurice Quinlivan for bringing forward the Bill which deals with a very topical issue. It is a good Bill which needs to be worked on and we are happy to support it. I agree with the Government's proposal that it proceed to Committee Stage after a period. A period of nine months has been proposed, but it could be shorter. There is a need for proper scrutiny because the issue is hugely complex and technological advances are well ahead of legislation. We have no legislation in place in this country. It is, therefore, an issue of huge public concern.

I attended a Munster rugby match in Thomond Park over the Christmas period with a neighbour of mine. I had a ticket, but he did not. He bought a ticket outside the stadium and when he presented it, it was declined. It had been sold back into the system on the website. There are issues that need to be dealt with in considering how we should try to tackle the problem. We must also bear in mind how legislation might be enforced. The Minister of State made reference to the moving of tickets to websites offshore, as happens in the gaming and gambling industries. We do not want to have a situation where some of the more reputable ticket reselling organisations will relocate and take their business and jobs elsewhere.

There are other complexities. Deputy Maurice Quinlivan and I both come from Limerick where there is a strong rugby tradition. Munster played Saracens in the European Rugby Champions Cup recently in the Aviva Stadium.

Most of the rugby clubs in Limerick would have used some of their ticket allocation to hold fundraising events in Dublin, where they would have sold packages of a meal and a ticket. How do we separate out that type of thing? I am just offering it as an example. A person obviously would pay more than the face value of the ticket as the whole thing is designed to make money and to fundraise for the club. These are hugely important sources of income to clubs. I note that the Deputy has exempted charities. There is also a huge issue in terms of the funding of our sporting organisations. Rightly or wrongly, the use of tickets for big sporting events which are distributed to soccer, GAA and rugby clubs is now an integral part of funding the day-to-day activities of voluntary clubs. There is a rugby club in Limerick city which was founded well over 100 years ago. Up until recently, it owed the bank €1.1 million. It is an amateur club with hundreds of kids turning up at weekends to play on the firsts, seconds and thirds. They are playing in the all-Ireland rugby league and all the rest. This is the reality faced by GAA, soccer and rugby clubs and other sporting organisations of different codes every day of the week. Tickets for major events are used for funding their day-to-day activities. It is not right but it is how they have to survive at the moment. How do we address that?

I am aware that the Department has carried out consultation. I really want to hear from the sporting organisations. Some of what Deputy Quinlivan has cited from their submissions to the Department is fine. They are running the events along with the concert and event promoters. They are getting the tickets out into the marketplace and are saying it should be criminalised after that, once they have the tickets sold at face value. My view is that those organisations, along with us as legislators and the State, have a responsibility to come up with reasonable, practical proposals to deal with the issue of ticket touting and reselling at inflated prices.

Nor is there any point in sticking our heads in the sand when it comes to the constitutional question in respect of property rights. If I hold a ticket and I have paid for it, can I not sell it at an inflated price? I own the ticket and it is my property. It is enshrined in our Constitution. We can all shrug our shoulders. I remember during a previous Administration how the Labour Party filled the galleries when the issue of upward-only rent reviews was under discussion. They insisted it was not unconstitutional and that we could deal with it by legislation. They marched people up and down the hill. When they got into government, even though they had the same legal adviser as when they were in opposition, it suddenly became a constitutional issue. The question really has to be addressed. If one owns a ticket, is it property or a licence? I think the Minister of State mentioned that matter and it must be teased out.

Why exempt charities? I am not anti-charity, and we all want to support charities, but we have seen how some churches register as charities. They collect their dues and subscriptions from parishioners and people get a tax form in the door which they are asked to sign. The church is registered as a charity and is claiming the credit. It is not just the church that does it. Will we then have a proliferation of charities? Again, it is very complex.

I am with Deputy Quinlivan all the way on the Bill. We really need to sort the problem out. I would love for our committee to spend a decent amount of time considering it. The Deputy has offered a Bill for the right reasons. The public, whom we are elected to serve, are the big losers. We should also have a debate about the primary cost of ticketing. If a family wants to go to Croke Park for an all-Ireland final, it is a very expensive day out. What is the cost of a ticket for an all-Ireland final or semi-final? A family of three, four or five might get a holiday in Spain for the same type of money. That is part of the engagement we need to have.

As part of our consultation, I would also like us to engage with the ticket resellers in the secondary market, such as eBay, StubHub and viagogo. Deputy Quinlivan and I are both from Limerick, where viagogo is a serious employer and a very reputable company. We have to sit down, talk with them and learn from their experiences. The issue has been around for a very long time and I would rather get it right than get it wrong and have to revisit it. We know that others have tried to deal with the issue previously. We are happy to support the Bill but would like to have a degree of consultation. If Deputy Quinlivan wants to propose to shorten the nine months, I am happy to go along with that too.

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