Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to this debate. This is a very serious debate for anyone who is in politics as long as I am. I entered politics with what was probably a very naive faith in the whole way in which An Garda Síochána was run. Over this long period many people's faith in that has been shaken. What we have decided today in government is really important, namely, that we need to look at the structures, culture, recruitment, management and so on, because they are not fit for purpose. That has been demonstrated time and again by the incidents which have occurred.

The truth is that we are on a very painful journey of reform in the Garda. All credit has to be given to the previous Government, this Government and the Tánaiste in particular for the programme of reform that has been instituted. We now have a Policing Authority which has independent oversight powers. We now have protection for whistleblowers. Far from what Deputy Róisín Shortall has said - that the Taoiseach has poured scorn on and rubbished whistleblowers - time and again we have seen the Government not only take whistleblowers seriously, but institute inquiries into the allegations made. These inquiries have resulted in information coming into the public domain and recommendations being made which advance the programme of reform. We have seen great improvements in GSOC, where there was, if we are to be honest, a dysfunctional relationship with An Garda Síochána. That relationship has been substantially repaired, although that is also a journey that has not reached its end. We have now put in place mechanisms, through the inspectorate and the Policing Authority, through which we can have a real programme of reform. That programme's implementation has begun and is being independently overseen by the Policing Authority, which is led by someone for whom I have the utmost respect, Josephine Feehily, the former chairperson of the Revenue Commissioners.

We have put in place much better oversight, but as a result of that oversight and the reform agenda we are seeing stones turned over and appalling things coming out from beneath. We in politics have to be mature enough not to run for demands for resignation at every revelation of wrongdoing. We have to have the patience and the good judgment to wait for the evidence to be sifted before we draw conclusions about where responsibility lies. Whether it is the drive of social media to have the freshest slice and to catch the next media wave or something else, it worries me that we in politics seem absolutely determined to respond to everything with a more outrageous demand for a head on a plate or whatever it is.

We need to respect gardaí. Gardaí are there to uphold the law, but they are also entitled to the fair procedure that the law affords to everyone else. A mere statement by a whistleblower does not constitute evidence. We have to realise that we gave protection to whistleblowers so that people could come forward without fear or favour and make things known to someone so they could be investigated. Once a whistleblower's claim comes into the public domain, however, we cannot immediately rush to the conclusion that the claim is proved.

I strongly support what we in government are doing today in establishing a commission. We need to bring in fresh blood into any organisation - and we have had other organisations - which recruits people at a very young age, and in which people spend 30 or 40 years of their lives, progressing up through it. These people do not have the mix of other skills. The organisation does not have recruitment at different levels. That is recognised in Deputy Jim O'Callaghan's motion. There is no way in which policing in the year of our Lord 2017 is the same as it was in 1977 or in 1947 but, by and large, the structures are the same. We need to recognise that there are huge areas of expertise in which there is a need to draw in the leaders of those fields, be they Irish or international, to help lead this force. It cannot all be done by upskilling those already there. We must look at recruitment and at culture. It is a hard thing to identify, but it is about what people regard as important. What happens when people do things that are wrong? What gets accounted for? That is really important within the culture.

We have seen other organisations whose reaction to wrongdoing within their ranks has been, at all cost, to avoid scandal, to circle the wagons and prevent scandal being shown or allowed to undermine the structure of the force or the organisation. That is wholly the wrong way to react. We need to see, from the bottom of the force right to the top, that when wrongdoing occurs the right thing to do is to open oneself up to that, to expose it and to deal with it so that a culture is conveyed in which being accountable is the right thing to do. Institutions have to be supported in doing that. I think the work of the independent inspectorate, of GSOC and of the Policing Authority will gradually change that, but we have to make sure that the structure which they are overseeing also changes. We have reached the point where simply having stronger oversight bodies, without changing the culture, management, recruitment and way in which An Garda Síochána works, will not be enough. That is the important step that we are taking now. We are recognising that oversight is one thing but having a structure that works is another.

The fundamental objection I have to Deputy Jim O'Callaghan's motion is that he is trying to confound those two things. It is important that we have a Garda system that works to the highest standards and that has the courage to do the things that need to be done, but is held accountable. Deputy Jim O'Callaghan's motion, however, asks that the Policing Authority would oversee it in every respect. It would supervise it, dictate policies to it, tell it what to do and supervise the Commissioner's office. That is far beyond what oversight or accountability demands. The Policing Authority would become the effective operator of An Garda Síochána. We have to keep those two. We need a strong Garda force that has the self-confidence and the independence to do things but that is strongly accountable to GSOC, to the Policing Authority and to the inspectorate. We should not confound those things. Again, the motion confounds those by saying that the Dáil should be requesting the Policing Authority to consider the Commissioner's position. The independent Policing Authority is independent of us. It makes its decisions and recommends to Government. It is not for the politicians to be telling the independent oversight body what it should be considering or doing. That is the wrong approach to adopt.

While I agree with a lot of what I see in Deputy Jim O'Callaghan's motion, we are at a very important stage and we need to step back and allow the evidence to be sifted by the tribunal set up under Mr. Justice Charleton. We need to allow the structures, such as Josephine Feehily's Policing Authority, to drive forward the reform. The authority is only 12 months old. It is learning its craft. We need to allow the strength of GSOC to show, to respect whistleblowers as we are now legally obliged to do and to allow that process to work. We need to step back a little and that is what the commission gives us the opportunity to do. It will allow people who have immense experience in different walks of life to bring their judgment to bear on one of the most important institutions we have as a nation.

It is something on which we need to rely. Members of the force who put their lives on the line every day for us need to be confident that they are working within a well-designed structure which recruits the best people to run those functions in the best possible way. They need to know that it respects truth and law, is properly accountable and is willing and has the self-confidence to expose itself to scrutiny. We need to step back. Instead of the political knee-jerk reaction of calling for heads, let us agree an approach to this commission. Let us make profound changes in order that, however long this Dáil lasts, we can reflect that we did a decent job in advancing the very painful journey of the force from one that is enclosed and inward-looking to one that is more outward looking and confident. That is a journey well worth travelling.

I commend the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, on the work she has done. There is much wisdom in this House on this issue, far beyond my knowledge of the justice portfolio. We need to use that wisdom to amplify the terms of this commission in whatever way we believe is useful. When the commission comes back, we should push on and implement that change. Let this Dáil be the one that puts in place the final pieces of a Garda structure we can all be proud of.

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