Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank my colleague, Deputy Catherine Martin. I also thank the Irish Premature Babies charity for the willingness of its members to share their stories and fight on behalf of other mothers, which it has been doing on a consistent basis. I am glad we were able to assist them in bringing their case to the House. I was stuck at a meeting of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight and I was unable to make it to their presentation in the audiovisual room earlier but everyone I talked to said it was a powerful and moving occasion. I thank them for attending the House and sharing those stories with us.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton. He is an advertisement for premature babies, 60 years on. I also thank the Minister for Justice and Equality for her presence and for her willingness to accept the motion. I would like to make a few points to nail down exactly what we are agreeing. This Chamber, by its nature, is adversarial. Motions are often agreed but there is a sense that one has scored a point but nothing will get done. This is a different motion, which has to have real effect. I am slightly concerned by the comments of both Ministers of State. I detected the Civil Service speak in their contributions with notes of caution and references to cost implications, further consideration, Attorney General's advice and so on. The proposal in the motion should be easily achieved before the year is out. We tabled it in a motion because, when in opposition, we are not able to introduced a money Bill but we are also concerned that if we tried to do this through legislation, it could get stuck in a slow and difficult legislative process. We thought one option might to be to include it in the finance or social welfare Bills connected to the 2018 budget because this has to be enacted in that timeframe to make that happen for next year.

The Minister of State, Deputy Corcoran Kennedy, said the proposal could be included in the family leave Bill, which is intended to help couples with adoptive leave and same-sex couples looking for benefits, and which I welcome. If it is possible to include it in that Bill and have it implemented in the timeframe we outlined, we would welcome and support that. The Department of Justice and Equality is under particular legislative pressure with an endless number of Bills in the queue and it is often difficult to secure Government time in the House. If an alternative approach can be taken through the budgetary process, as we have suggested, will the Minister consider it to make sure the proposal gets over the line and turns into a reality?

The second note of caution I detected related to cost implications and a differentiation in the contributions of both Ministers of State between a premature baby born at 23 or 24 weeks and a baby born at between 34 or even 37 weeks. The simplicity and clarity of the mechanism presented by Deputy Catherine Martin makes most sense. She said that this is about giving mothers time. The science is clear that every day before the arrival of a baby is vital for the baby, the parents and the rest of the family. If we start parcelling out and costing each week in respect of a premature baby, that would not reflect well on the State and how we value mothers and babies and, in particular, premature babies. The Government should stick with the approach that has been set out in the motion. The clarity of the taxation and benefit measures in our law should help in order that mothers are not trying to calculate which category of premature child they are in. It is medically recognised that a baby born at 37 weeks or less is premature. Let us treat them all the same.

Our estimate, when the social welfare benefits and other supports are included, is that the proposal would cost €5 million. The Secretaries General of the Departments of Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform appeared at the meeting of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight and they batted off a €120 million charge that has not been covered for additional Garda pay and water charges and so on by saying the money would be found easily enough. If €120 million can be found easily enough, then let us find €5 million and extend the maternity leave system in a way that everyone would recognise as just.

The number of Members who contributed to the debate and who had personal stories about premature babies was remarkable. The one in 16 ratio emerged in every contribution with Members referring to a sister or someone at a sibling's workplace, or a mother they knew. We all relate to this experience. This proposal should be implemented quickly, whether that is through the family leave Bill in gestation, the finance Bill or another legislative proposal, as part of valuing motherhood, parenting and our young babies.

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