Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank everyone who has contributed tonight. I thank all Members for giving their honest and frank assessment.

I am disappointed with the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne. She came to the Chamber tonight but did not answer the questions we had asked about the helicopter and parking that is worse than the parking at the hospital in Crumlin.

People have asked why stand-alone children's hospitals continue to be built. Examples include the hospital in Melbourne and Alder Hey Children's Hospital. Where is the evidence? Why did the Minister of State not refer to these, rather than taunting us and accusing us of being reckless and whatever?

Deputy D'Arcy should note what we have said. The Rural Independent Group honestly put down this motion in good faith because we believe the current site is the wrong site. We want to see a world-class children's hospital built as soon as possible as well. We are entitled to it. I have heard all the talk about the unanimous decision and the great majority following the vote in 2012. I was here. The Minister of State and the Minister voted for it. They cannot wash their hands of it like Pontius Pilate. What Deputy Michael Ring is doing with the post offices is becoming contagious. The Minister was in the Chamber at the time. Fine Gael voted for it with its big bulldozer majority at the time. The Minister was then a backbencher. The Minister of State voted for it as well. Fine Gael had a majority. Let us consider where it got them. It nearly got them demoralised because the people did not agree with any of the actions that Fine Gael took. Mr. Hogan – Big Phil – and the others bullied everyone. They are paying the price for it and will continue to pay the price for it.

I wish to record the points made by the Government in favour of the current site. As part of the consultation exercise, the Dolphin review group identified St. James's Hospital as the most suitable adult partner for the new children's hospital from a clinical and research perspective. This is rather misleading. No report ever recommended the site at St. James's Hospital. There is no such claim in the Dolphin report. That is a fact.

The Government took the view that a planning application to place the children's hospital at Connolly Hospital might prove difficult due to lack of transportation capacity at the N3-M50 junction. That is wrong. The truth is Connolly Hospital has dedicated slip access off the M50-N3 interchange. Bus services are available on site. There are no parking restrictions. It is within walking distance from Castleknock train station, which is on the Dublin-Sligo main rail line. There is a helicopter pad at ground level that can take any helicopter. There could be world-class helicopters if the Government decided to put up the money to pay for them, rather than having a volunteer group trying to fund helicopters throughout the country. We support that group as well.

The Martin report on the planning aspect of the project lists regional buses stopping at the nearby Blanchardstown shopping centre. Incidentally, that shopping centre has 7,000 parking spaces and separate staff access at the Waterville estate.

The Minister of State should never suggest that we did not visit the site. I call on her to withdraw that comment, as well as the suggestion that we did not have the manners or respect to visit the hospital. We have visited the sites. We have met all the people. They gave up their valuable time. The Minister of State should show some respect to them rather than demonising us.

The Government claims the vast majority, up to 78%, of children currently attending the existing three hospitals for children come from within the greater Dublin area, including Meath, Kildare and Wicklow. The Government claims these children will be served in future by a hospital and by two new paediatric outpatient departments and urgent care centres at Tallaght and Connolly Hospital. The Government claims the staff will be catered for.

We are not anti-social either. I totally resent the Minister of State even suggesting as much. How dare she? She should know better. I am surprised at her because she is not like that normally. Her conscience must be troubling her on this issue.

There has been grossly misleading use of statistics. One claim holds that a total of 66% of children in the greater Dublin area live outside the M50, while a significant proportion of the remaining 33% live inside or close to the M50. In fact, 90% of children in the country live outside the M50. However, the Government wants to forget about us; it is all about Dublin. Postal addresses are not an indicator of frequency or intensity of hospital attendance. Tertiary patients in specialised units are intensive users with longer stays in hospital. Nine out of ten of these patients live outside the M50. The Minister of State and the Minister should put that in their pipes and smoke it. It is not all about the Pale and the mad cow roundabout at the M50. We had mad cow disease some years ago and we had to eliminate it. Now, we have this madness continuing with this Government and this proposal. It seems nothing can stop the Government, not even the cost.

Another claim is that most parents access the hospital car parks and that ample parking has been provided for families based on the current and projected future demand. That is altogether false. People cannot get parking at the moment. Fewer parking spaces per bed are being provided than were available at the hospital in Crumlin in 2010. Parking at Crumlin in 2010 could never have been described as adequate, never mind ample. Why are the nurses fleeing? The proposed children's hospital has the smallest parking allocation of any recently-built children's hospital with only two spaces per bed. The children's hospital in Melbourne opened in 2011. It provides 6.8 spaces per bed. Alder Hey Children's Hospital opened in Liverpool in 2015 with 4.4 spaces per bed. The Government can put any spin on it or hire any spin doctor but it cannot explain that away. We would need days to count up all the misleading information issued. However, we do not have the time. More important, the children do not have the time or energy. The same applies to the parents in the Gallery – I warmly welcome them and thank them for their behaviour this evening. If we change sites now, the hospital can still be built in 2021. That view is held by the only man in the entire saga who has actually built three hospitals on time, Mr. James Sheehan, who is with us this evening.

I appeal to all my colleagues to go back and review the information that has been provided by the Connolly for Kids Hospital Campaign. I appeal to them to think once again about the consequences for generations to come. The parents of affected children are in the Gallery today and I salute them. They will meet the Minister and speak about their fears for St. James's Hospital. They are not anti-social. They hope that the national children's hospital can be built in the right location. It is never too late to do the right thing.

The Minister asked me a question earlier. I would in no way impugn the reputation of the medical people who came in last week. I simply thought what Mr. O'Brien told us was hilarious. By the way, the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, never referred to the cost or the questions raised tonight by Deputy Coppinger. Mr. O'Brien said he has no money to build it. The Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, has no money either but it was nice that he got in before the replies. Mr. O'Brien told us that he did not have the money.

We have one week before the next Committee of Public Accounts meeting. I am glad the Committee of Public Accounts Chairman arrived into the Chamber some minutes ago. I have referred this to the Committee of Public Accounts. The committee is going to deal with it too. We have to get the truth, however we get it. People are going to start telling the truth. The total cost of the BAM Ireland contract – I am referring to the preferred bidder - does not include the enabling works or the demolition. It is like a place in Syria at the moment with all the builders have knocked down, including a wonderful and beautiful church. The accommodation works Deputy Danny Healy-Rae referred to are not part of any contract. These are all hidden costs. The Minister said he was down there last week to see the works. They are growing. If we dropped a bomb, we would not knock as much. What is the cost of all this? The Minister should be honest with us and tell us the costs. These works are ongoing and could cost a further €100 million at least.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae has experience in construction, as does Deputy Fitzmaurice. We always declare it here before we speak. They told the Minister about it. We cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The Minister should listen. There is insufficient space to work a mini-digger, never mind massive cranes and equipment. Deputy Healy-Rae is right. Builders have to respect the neighbours and work within restricted hours on such sites. However, on a greenfield site, the builders can cordon the site. We would drop the members of the Government up there every so often to allow them to have a look at it and to see the progress. Work on such a site would pass out the progress of the other dastardly site any time.

Where are the costs for upgrading utilities by Dublin City Council in order to provide adequate services? They are not included. Where are the costs for the HSE? The service is currently using the Croppies Acre in front of the National Museum on the quays as a depot. All these costs are hidden. It is misleading. This is more subterfuge from the HSE and the Minister for Health. Where are the costs of the linear park, the only green space in the entire complex? That was a major selling point in the original proposal. Where are the costs for that? Where are the costs of the satellite units at Connolly Hospital and Tallaght hospital, to which the Minister of State referred? This is outrageous. It beggars belief that there can be such deceit perpetrated on the public and on this House. I mean that.

I am not questioning anyone's integrity but the Ministers are being fed information by their officials and by consultants who are being paid to tell them whatever story they want to hear. They more they are paid, the better the answers they will give.

I have a document here that is so sad. I put it together this morning, with help from a sick person. It states:

St. James's is wrong for children. St. James's is wrong for families. St. James's is utterly wrong. The truth has been sent to you [I mean all of the Deputies here and myself], shown to you and said to you. You persist in your privileged safety, buffered from the gritty truth, hoping it will pass. It will not pass. It will not pass. [I know that we are nearly at the Passion of our Lord coming up to Easter week, but this will not pass and it will rest with you for the rest of your lives]. The truth will never pass. It will walk by your side, sit at your dinner table, kiss your children good night. The truth is like now; it cannot but exist at every moment, in every place. You can scorn the past. [We had a debate on Ferns recently. We had Cloyne only last week, we had the Magdalen laundries, the Tuam mother and baby home and we had Grace. What more do we want?] You were not there, any of you, or me. You would have done differently. You would have stood against common thought, common voice and common action or lack thereof. You would have defied your peers, forfeited your future, [ambitions to be Taoiseach and whatever else] risked your reputation in the name of doing right by the vulnerable, voiceless, penniless, pitiful child. Of course you would have. You would have been a revolutionary; of course you would have. Now, some day when someone else has passed, now it is up to you. Now you are there. Now is your turn, a hAirí. To be absent, to be silent, to be unheard is to be that person who didn't speak when the little children suffered. To not admit, to not stand, to not act is to re-fail those children [and the children of these good people in the Gallery who have given of their time] of the past for their suffering. Has nothing changed? St. James's is wrong for children. St. James's is wrong for families. St. James' is utterly wrong, I tell you.

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