David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

There is no doubt the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, is a thoroughly decent person and in my book, he has always strived to do the right thing. It is incumbent on him, the Government and all Ministers to make sure we get this right.

We heard this morning from two former members of the Committee of Public Accounts who have examined many of these issues in great detail, namely, Deputies McGuinness and Deasy. Both stated that what is at play here is a massive cover-up by the HSE. It appears that is the case but obviously we need to establish the truth. To enable us to establish the truth, however, we need to hear from all of the victims and their families and we need to make sure that all allegations that are being made are covered. That is an absolute necessity. I would like to hear the Minister of State's response to many of the issues which have been raised.

Grace, as we know, was a victim of multiple failures across many different State and semi-State bodies and she is not the only one. Unfortunately, as the Minister of State knows, it is not the first time we are here discussing people who were in the care of the State and who were victims of abuse.

In this case, there have been horrific levels of abuse against Grace and many others as well.

When the social workers identified as Ms D and Ms E first raised the allegations of a cover-up to the effect that there was a danger of the deliberate destruction of files and threats to their agencies funding from the HSE, what was the response of the authorities? They passed on the allegations to the very section against which they had been made. That is quite incredible. It was an incredible systems failure if that is what happened. When the Dignam report was first published, the HSE said that the report did not find any instances of wrongdoing or fault. Ever since, it has had to backtrack almost with every passing day.

As we know, the report did find instances of wrongdoing or fault. Legally, it was not possible for negative findings to be made. The Dignam report identified several failures in the previous reports, including inadequate terms of reference, meaning that the reviews in question were hampered in terms of scope. It also notes that these reviews did not contain the protected disclosures made by Ms D and Ms A. The Dignam report states that allegations were made by Ms D, a social worker, regarding a cover-up, the danger of a deliberate destruction of files and threats to the funding of the organisation she worked for by the HSE. These are extraordinary allegations.

The allegation of a cover-up is extremely serious, given the level, duration and scale of failings by the organisation, as well as the scale of the abuse of which we have been made aware. The possibility that the evidence was destroyed is also deeply disturbing. I quote the Dignam report:

1.5: Substantive matters underlying those two previous Inquiries and matters related to those substantive matters are matters which have obviously been the subject of extensive public discourse and coverage in the media. This Review came about because of specific process-type issues that were raised before the Public Accounts Committee. The Review was clearly not established to investigate those underlying substantive matters and it would therefore have been wrong and inappropriate for me to have done so. I have not done so.

1.6: Whether some of the concerns expressed in that public discourse prove to be correct and well-founded or not, it is indisputable that they have raised very significant public unease and questions of public interest.

Of course, Mr. Dignam did not have powers of compellability. He was entirely reliant on the HSE and any other party he sought or requested documentation from to provide him with all of the relevant or required documents and to ensure that the copies were complete. In other words, Mr. Dignam was reliant on others to implicate themselves in wrongdoing. The Minister of State knows that this was the case. He knows that is unacceptable. He knows that is not the way to establish the truth and, in my view, he knows now what needs to be done. We need to have all of the matters contained in complaints by two of the protected disclosures to the Department of Health in 2014 fully investigated. As the Dignam report recommended, we need to know the facts relating to any difficulties in the functioning of the relevant social work department, including any reasons underlying such difficulties, the facts relating to any steps that were taken to address these difficulties, the question of whether any such difficulties had any impact on the care and welfare of service users and, if they had such impact, how the situation was permitted to arise. We also need to know the facts relating to the care received by all of those placed in foster placement.

I will finish with one very quick point. I ask the Minister of State to assure the Dáil that if we are to have a commission of investigation into the Grace case, any evidence of a criminal nature will not be exempt from any future court cases.

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