John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

8 o’clock

This is a debate on two reports. In the interest of fairness to the committees of the Houses, the protocol should be observed that it is the committee's report that is taken. However, that is a matter for the Business Committee. During the course of the this debate members were speaking to two different reports. Most of the criticism about timelines and so on relates to the Minister of State's report. Most of the reasonable contributions were on the committee report.

I am sorry that my socialist colleague, Deputy Mick Barry, is not here but Deputy Boyd Barrett might mention to him that as a socialist myself I accept fully the argument made about taxis. The organisation representing taxis did appear before the committee and made an excellent contribution. I agree that the taxi sector is a part of the SME sector that is weak because of the level of regulation and costs involved and it will not be able to sustain further years of nothing being done. Therefore, in some way, as part of the public transport system, it should be acknowledged and supported, if that can be done. The taxi sector is under serious threat in terms of its existence.

The Minister of State mentioned a lot of figures regarding the cost of insurance, as did my colleagues. We have all had cases raised with us at our offices. What I learned from the hearings is that there is a cartel-type activity going on between the insurance companies. For example, only two or three companies will quote people in the taxi business and such quotes are excessive and not sustainable. When it comes to the insurance companies - the blue books from the Central Bank - as rightly said by Deputy Mick Barry, the insurance companies made €3.1 billion in profits from 2001 to 2012 compared with a loss of only €330 million in 2013-2014. The pattern for them as far as profitability is concerned has been massively on the increase, with some blips along the way, but they would expect that. The insurance companies would have that factored in. What Deputy Boyd Barrett said earlier is true, namely, by comparison with the profits that are being made, the people in need of insurance are being squeezed so much they cannot take any more. As I said earlier, the Central Bank was asleep on duty in terms of regulating and protecting consumer rights. That is why I emphasised in my contribution the need for that protection to be extended and to be robust. That is a must in terms of anything that happens.

Rural proofing in terms all this is necessary. People who live in rural areas are faced with huge difficulties in terms of having no access to public transport nor being able to afford taxis for hospital appointments and so on. Now they cannot afford insurance. As stated by Deputy Mattie McGrath, even when a person over 70 years of age has a clear medical report, the insurance companies still will not insure him or her. In the context of the timelines to which the Minister of State referred, there may be issues he can deal with that will immediately affect the premiums for those sectors that are under so much pressure, for example, the taxi sector.

The Irish Road Haulage Association appeared before the committee. Its representatives pointed out that if its members can get re-registered elsewhere in Europe or if they can get re-flagging, they move out of Ireland and the loss to this country per truck is €250,000. How can we as a country sustain that? What we need is a single insurance market. The Irish Road Haulage Association representative, Ms Verona Murphy, made great sense. She pointed out the issues. As in the case of the individuals who are affected by premiums, the organisations that represent the bigger groups that are able to articulate their argument better have so much common sense to put forward. All they are asking for is for the Minister of State to take the action that is necessary.

The Minister of State told me this morning in relation to the European directive that it takes time for that to be teased out and so on. While that is happening, according to Ms Murphy on behalf of the Irish Road Haulage Association, businesses are going bust. They cannot take any more. I know from my background in the haulage business that there is very little mark-up in it. Businesses are trading on a wing and prayer. If we do not do something about the SME sector, including the taxi sector, businesses will not be with us. All of this is affecting our possibilities in terms of our economic development and in terms of the social affect it is having not only in cities but particularly in rural Ireland. As I said earlier, the timeline is crucial.

In terms of the profitability of insurance companies, I do not mind business making a profit once it does not do so on the back of a cartel or citizens being screwed. Something has to change. The Minister of State referenced the awards. We are always told by the insurance companies that the reason for the increase in premiums is the level and number of awards. I referred earlier to the profits being made by the industry. In 2013, the average award was €21,730. In 2016, the average award was €21,782 which means nothing has changed. The insurance industry's argument does not stand up. The argument around profitability does not stand up. The Central Bank should have been working with the industry such that there was no road bump in terms of costs. We should have had regulation, clearer understanding of premiums and we should have brought the public with us over the past seven years, but that did not happen.

I do not accept Deputy Mick Barry's argument about the information provided in the report. Deputy Boyd Barrett might pass on to him the point that there is nothing buried in the depths of the report. It is a report that has been supported by socialists and others alike. It is a report unanimously accepted by the committee. The information is not buried; it is in the report. I do not mind criticism but we all need to work in a constructive way to get the report right.

On legislation and the EU directive, the Minister of State must do something to speed up that process. Other members referred to legislation that was passed, parts of which have not been enacted and recommendations made but not implemented. It is in that context that the Minister of State should be ensuring tighter timelines. I referred earlier to the committee's officials, the excellent work they did, their professionalism and so on. The witness who struck a chord with me and others in terms of how forthright she was in the description of what is going on in this industry is Ms Dorothea Dowling. She has been a voice in this area for a long time. She reminds me of John the Baptist but she has not lost her head yet. She gives a true picture of the insurance business and does a good job. I encourage the Minister of State to bring forward the timelines to try to decrease the cost of insurance. I know he wants to manage expectations but perhaps we should examine the expectations of the insurance industry. It expects us to continue to protect it and to not acknowledge that it is a cartel.

Let us turn the tables on them and ensure they now feel the pinch from us, the elected representatives who represent the people.

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