Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Pearse Doherty will take one or two minutes also.

I will get directly to the point. Yesterday, we met with the Minister and brought to her seven separate proposals in terms of the changes we would like to see made. I am glad to say that six of those proposals have been taken on board in some capacity. There was an issue around the wording, and the Minister committed to do her best to try to include it.

We mentioned to the Minister yesterday the possibility of including other whistleblowers in a way that would not delay the initial focus of the inquiry, which was Maurice McCabe and now Keith Harrison. I am glad to say that paragraph [p] now allows for that to happen. The fact that we are now introducing modules will allow for the initial public inquiry into the allegations and the cases of Keith Harrison and Maurice McCabe to be dealt with. There is a timeframe on an interim report of three months, which is less than what we had suggested to the Minister. We suggested a timeframe of four months so we welcome that. If the cases of other whisleblowers need to be examined, there is scope within the terms of reference for the judge to request an additional module.

One of the other issues we asked the Minister to examine was the possibility, and we raised it last week, of including Members of the Oireachtas. I know that wording it in that way was somewhat problematic but under paragraph [h] the Minister has been able to achieve that where she states "or any relevant person as the Sole Member may deem necessary to carry out his work". I believe that covers any Member of the Oireachtas. We had also asked that Tusla and the Health Service Executive would be named in the terms of reference and we are glad to see that has been done.

The other areas we wanted included, as I am sure did other Deputies, was to determine if there was evidence to indicate a pattern in terms of the way whistleblowers were being discredited and allegations were being made about them. That is included in paragraph [o], which is to investigate any pattern of the creation and distribution of Tusla files. My only concern about that is that it is narrowed to the use of Tusla files. I would have liked it to be extended to include whether there was a pattern regarding the use of media to discredit whistleblowers but, unfortunately, we have not been able to work that into the terms. I understand the reason for that, namely, that we wanted to keep the terms of reference as narrow possible but I would have liked to determine if there was a pattern in terms of the use of the media, and not just Tusla, to discredit whistleblowers.

Only one of our proposals was not included, and we discussed this with the Minister yesterday. We had asked that the judge would be given the power to examine the protected disclosures, the way the procedures and protocols are working and whether he would recommend changes. The Minister agreed at our meeting yesterday that that is a piece of work we should probably undertake and gave a commitment that it is something we would like to undertake. It comes under the office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, and the Minister has given a commitment to discuss that with him. We would be eager to see that piece of work being done. I do not see any reason it cannot happen in tandem with the public inquiry. I understand the reason it is not referred to in the terms of reference but the Minister gave a commitment on it.

There is an issue around the costs. My colleague, Deputy Doherty, will speak about that but we have to recognise that when a tribunal of inquiry is set up, one of the major criticisms from the public, and even from Members of this House, is the cost of it. We believe there is a solution to that but it might mean holding back on agreeing the terms of reference until next week. I am not suggesting we should do that but it might be something the Minister would consider. We could look at bringing in emergency legislation, but I will allow Deputy Doherty to discuss that. My colleague, Deputy Tóibín, will speak also.

Overall, we are satisfied with the terms of reference. We believe they will achieve what we hope to achieve and we will support them.

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