Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I remember when Sergeant Maurice McCabe came before the Committee of Public Accounts. At the time, the controversy in question arose in respect of the penalty points system. Members will recall that Sergeant McCabe stepped forward in an unprecedented way, came before the committee and gave evidence. That evidence was contested. It was certainly my impression, as a member of the then committee, that the system had no appetite for Sergeant McCabe coming before the committee. I am using temperate language in my description of the atmosphere at the time. Nonetheless, Sergeant McCabe came forward, told his story and, for the most part, his allegations stood up. Certainly, his intentions were vindicated, as was the fact that he was acting not from malice, but out of genuine concern. Sergeant McCabe emerged from that episode with this honour and his good name very much intact.

I suppose what this commission of investigation looks to is the behind-the-scenes action, if I could call it that, of the relevant period. In other words, what was going on. Whereas those of us at the front line in the then committee could get a sense of hostility, I could never have imagined the things that are now alleged to have gone on. Let me repeat what I stated to the Tánaiste this morning. These are not minor issues. If even a fraction of these allegations are held to be true, then we have a deep, deep problem within An Garda Síochána. If it is a practice to target individuals in a way that is vindictive, malicious and dishonourable, if that has happened in any way in respect of a serving member of An Garda Síochána, we have a big problem.

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We have a problem that extends beyond the Garda because the other allegations suggest a level of collusion among elements of what is called the mainstream media and a question mark over the contacts, and the influence or otherwise, of political figures, be they in government or Members of the Oireachtas. These are very serious matters and nobody contests any of that. Therefore, it is very important to get the terms of reference right.

In large measure, I believe Mr. Justice O'Neill has set the compass in the right direction - let us agree on that. We have moved an amendment to extend the remit to capture any potential contacts between An Garda Síochána and other agencies of the State, that is to say, contacts in addition to the alleged contact with media outlets and political figures. It is important we get to the bottom of that and that we have full knowledge of exactly the extent of communication, and malicious communication at that. Our amendment, which was discussed by Deputy Jonathan O'Brien, captures that.

There is also the issue of the other whistleblowers, which Deputies Clare Daly and Mick Wallace have raised, legitimately so. I can understand the value of having a particular focus within this commission of investigation. I believe what is alleged to have happened to Maurice McCabe warrants in and of itself independent investigation, but that is not to say the complaints of Garda Harrison and Garda Keogh, and perhaps others, must not also be investigated. We need an answer from the Minister. If she is not accommodating the other whistleblowers within this framework and she has a rationale for that, how then will their complaints be answered? Do we need a separate scoping process and another commission? We need an answer to that question.

On the issue of the Commissioner and her position, to set the record straight, because a bit of mischief has been made on this issue, nobody has suggested for a second that her constitutional right to her good name is up for grabs - that is not what has been said. To my knowledge, nobody has argued that we set that aside. However, what is as plain as the nose on one's face is that Mr. Justice O'Neill did feel moved to recommend a commission of investigation. He regarded the question marks over senior gardaí, including the former Commissioner and the serving Commissioner, to be of sufficient gravity to warrant a commission of investigation. I do not know how, in the real world, given that set of circumstances, one could possibly argue for Nóirín O'Sullivan to remain in position. I do not believe that is tenable. I would go further and say it is in her best interest, in my view, in the defence of her good name and reputation, that she would do the sensible and decent thing and stand aside. The Minister should listen not just to those of us on the Opposition benches but, it seems, to those on her own back benches in order that a common sense approach is adopted in this regard.

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