Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I want, first of all, to thank Members of this House for agreeing to statements being taken on this important matter in the House today. As the House will be aware - Deputy Howlin has just asked about it - I have laid whatever material I can before the House. I also have put before the House the full recommendations of Mr. Justice O'Neill, as well as the conclusions and terms of reference. However, before moving to seek approval for the relevant motion, I believe it is sensible that we discuss these matters here. That is what I would like to see happening this afternoon. I am already persuaded from discussion which I have had and commentary I have listened to that there may be some improvements that can be made to put beyond doubt that certain matters will come within the remit of the proposed commission. I intend to reflect on what is said today and make any amendments to the proposed draft order in the light of those discussions. There is a particular procedure that Deputies will be aware of when an order must be made before the House with regard to a commission of investigation. There is Cabinet approval and so on.

I must emphasise, as Mr. Justice O'Neill indicated, that it is imperative that certain allegations be examined. We should stick as closely as possible to the terms of reference he proposed, not least because otherwise, we could delay finding out the truth about these important matters. Mr. Justice O'Neill does not know if the allegations he says should be inquired into are true; I do not know if they are true and nor does any Member of this House. We have to remember that the truth or otherwise of allegations is not determined by their seriousness or their frequency but by the facts. Establishing those facts, without fear or favour, is what I and the Government are determined should happen. I am very grateful that Mr. Justice Charleton of the Supreme Court has agreed to act as the commission with all its powers.

It is of the utmost importance that allegations of wrongdoing by members of An Garda Síochána are fully addressed and there is no doubt that in the past this did not happen as it should have. It is very important that in addressing one injustice we do not create others. Just as failing to address allegations of wrongdoing or victimising those who have the courage to come forward and identify wrongdoing is unacceptable, so too is damaging, without evidence or fairness, the good names of people. I remind the House that we have seen in the recent past commissions of investigation establishing that people who have made allegations have been found to be correct in the face of denials and obstruction, while on the other hand, persons investigated had behaved completely properly. They had to live for a long time under the shadow of allegations that were found not to be well based and, in some cases, their careers were ruined with great personal cost. That is the reality behind charges that can be made in this House.

We have a solemn duty to act with scrupulous fairness and in the public interest when allegations of wrongdoing are made. That is why when I received disclosures from two members of An Garda Síochána last October I asked Mr. Justice O'Neill to review the allegations and recommend what further action may be taken. I stated this in the House and his full report will of course be made available to the commission of investigation. I have set out in the statement of reasons before the House the conclusions and recommendations contained in his report and Mr. Justice O'Neill's recommended terms of reference. The priority, as I stated, must be to give full effect to his recommendations. I recognise, of course, that other Members of this House may have views about what should be included in those terms of reference and I will listen to those views this afternoon.

As I did earlier, I want to address directly suggestions that the Garda Commissioner should stand aside. It is easy to come into this House to make allegations - even where they are described as not being allegations - against someone who is not here to defend himself or herself. I must speak out in favour of fairness. Some people appear to believe that the making of serious allegations against someone, which have not been tested in any way, is a sufficient basis on which to expect someone to step aside. Allegations are not convictions. There has been no finding of wrongdoing against the Garda Commissioner and I believe in those circumstances she is entitled to our full confidence. It is a matter of fact too that Mr. Justice O'Neill did not recommend that she or anyone else should stand aside. Just as it would be outrageous for some sort of smear campaign to have taken place against whistleblowers, it would be completely wrong for anyone else to be targeted in such a fashion.

Whereas allegations of wrongdoing must be taken very seriously, the need to protect the public is of great importance too. As everybody has said, An Garda Síochána plays a vital role in that regard. The Garda has been confronting many challenges head on, not least in tackling the activities of gangland criminals. We should all be mindful of the dangers of disrupting the leadership of that organisation at a time of great risk to communities and for no established cause. Actions have consequences and it is fanciful to imagine that a temporary Garda Commissioner could be in the interests of An Garda Síochána and, consequently, the community. In short, asking the Garda Commissioner to stand aside in the particular circumstances that have arisen would be neither fair nor in the public interest.

I am conscious that in recent years An Garda Síochána has been hit by a series of controversies. It was against that background that I moved to introduce a range of significant reforms, including the establishment of the Policing Authority. I received cross-party support for that. I indicated, in speaking in the House recently on the justice committee report on governance and accountability, that I will introduce legislation to enhance the powers of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. I met Ms Justice Mary Ellen Ring some weeks ago and agreed that we should do a ten-year review of the GSOC legislation and strengthen its powers. GSOC is also setting up a protected disclosures unit to deal with protected disclosures. We must ensure the various mechanisms that we set up for oversight of An Garda Síochána have all the relevant powers and that they work. It is in the interests of everybody, including whistleblowers and members of An Garda Síochána and other organisations, that they all have the very best mechanisms for whistleblowers to make their case and that such mechanisms work.

We often talk of drawing a line under bad episodes in the work of An Garda Síochána. I do not accept that and it is not about drawing lines under anything. Instead, it is about rooting out bad practices and I am committed to that. It is about putting in place strong, durable and sustainable policies and procedures to prevent a recurrence. We have taken initiatives here, as has the justice committee, and we have made various changes in legislation in recent years. That is the path we are on. Nevertheless, we have received very serious protected disclosures and I responded to them immediately. I asked Mr. Justice O'Neill, a very distinguished judge, to examine them and he has reverted with terms of reference that I have accepted. I have said I will listen to the debate this afternoon and I am open to amending the terms of reference. I must go to Cabinet in that regard.

Reform must be the watch word of An Garda Síochána as reform never stops.

In the meantime we have to deal with the issues that arise, not by making political charge or counter-charge in the House or by pretending to act as a commission of investigation - the House is not such a body - but by putting procedures in place to ensure allegations are fully and fairly investigated. This is exactly what I am doing by stating before the House that the Government has agreed to a commission of investigation and by asking the House to support the development and work of that investigation to ensure the work can be done in a timely way with appropriate terms of reference.

I look forward to hearing what colleagues have to say about the proposed terms of reference. I will take serious note of the points made by colleagues today.

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