John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Like previous speakers, I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. Like my colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, and my party, Fianna Fáil, I support the legislation.

One does not need to be from a particular class to understand injustice or to understand that a light must be shone on particular areas of society in order to highlight the deficiencies of a system.

I applaud Deputy Daly who, as is regularly her wont, is seeking to champion this issue. If it does nothing more than throw open a door into the way our prison system and prisons operate, it will get an interesting conversation going in the House but I suspect it will do more than that. The Bill proposes to restrict the practice of solitary confinement and not just the restriction necessarily to a physical space. She also seeks to address other issues such as the denial of human contact during such confinement. The briefing materials we have received from organisations such as the Irish Penal Trust and Members in their contributions to the debate, not least my colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, have expressed a desire to have a conversation about this issue, which should include all sides in the debate.

I have given the Bill a cursory reading. It is necessary for the House to examine its provisions on behalf of our citizens. The Bill proposes that "no prisoner shall be held in solitary confinement for any reason for more than 30 days in any year". Many people would be shocked that this happens and that, in some cases, prisoners are confined for twice that duration. The Bill also provides that "no prisoner with a diagnosed mental illness or disability shall be subject to solitary confinement". I do not know whether there is evidence that this happens but this was adverted to by my colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan. I reiterate his point that if an inmate had a physical illness or had been subject to physical harm resulting in a broken arm or leg, for example, it is unlikely he or she would remain in solitary confinement, yet there is a possibility that someone with a diagnosed mental illness would be treated differently. If that is the case, it is illustrative of the gap in the thinking in this country when it comes to mental health issues.

The legislation proposes that "prisoners shall be visited by a doctor and by a mental health professional within 24 hours of being placed in solitary confinement and shall be visited by same every day that they are so held". This is a practical, pragmatic and reasonable provision and, at the very least, we need to debate it. It further proposes that "prisoners held in solitary confinement for any reason shall have access to work, training, education, rehabilitation, and other services, and insofar as is possible this shall be in association with other prisoners". The Minister of State seemed to say, in his response on behalf of the Minister, that in an ideal world if we had endless resources etc. this might be possible. However, the Minister seems to lack any engagement with this issue.

We cannot forget about the rights of prison officers in this regard. Deputy Wallace alluded to this and there is no need for me to go over this ground, as he has engaged much more than I have in this area. I am only setting out in this area but it interests me. We have to be conscious of the rights of prison officers. A number of them are constituents of mine, as will be the case for every other Member. One or two of them have suffered horrendous injuries at the hands of prisoners in the course of their daily duties. Theirs is one of the toughest physical jobs and it is intimidating to undertake. The public needs to understand that support for the legislation is not based on a soft, pink, liberal stance, which does not take into account the rights of everybody involved, most particularly prison officers who are charged with the daily task of caring for prisoners. The greatest champion in my lifetime of prison reform was the former Governor of Mountjoy Prison, Mr. John Lonergan. Nobody would be considered more iconic than him in respect of the need for reform. I would like to hear what the Prison Officers Association and the Irish Prison Service have to say on this and, as the Bill proceeds to Committee Stage and beyond, they will have an opportunity to do so. I want to understand the reasons beyond the obvious, to which the Minister of State referred, a person would be put into solitary confinement.

I find it most disturbing that a prisoner who is vulnerable to physical intimidation by other prisons can be put in solitary confinement for up to 23 hours a day for his or her protection. It is a frightening concept for anybody to grasp. Regardless of our age, a number of iconic movies revolve around issues relating to solitary confinement of prisoners such as "The Shawshank Redemption" and "Cool Hand Luke". Solitary confinement was designed to kill the rebel spirit apparently but we know from the narratives in those movies that was far from what it did. As a public representative, I have to be careful and I do not suggest prisoners in our system are similar to the characters in these movies. They are in prison for a reason. They have broken the law and they are serving a sentence, and we also need to consider their victims. I am alive to the predominance in prisons of people from particular postal addresses or areas of economic disadvantage in this county and country.

The Bill is a welcome start to an important conversation and I am glad my party is part of it. I am grateful for the Minister of State's attendance to outline the Minister's response but I am sorry that the Government benches are empty. It looks like he will be the only contributor from his side, although I hope he is not. The Minister's response lacks any interest in, or engagement with, the issue and it smacks of having been farmed out to the relevant agencies to respond with facts and figures. There is no heart in the response. There is not even a semblance of a willingness to get involved in the conversation. I am disappointed by that but, as the Bill progresses, with Fianna Fáil support, perhaps she will become more politically and personally engaged with this issue.

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