Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I join Deputy Michael McGrath in his remarks on the work being done on this issue by those involved in Revenue and the Department of Finance. I do not necessarily need the answer right now, but, on a technical issue, I would like to know what specific anti-avoidance mechanisms have been developed to provide for constant reviews and address the possibilities raised legitimately by Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly. Obviously, we will not know until we are further into the financial year or years.

Charities have been used as part of the vehicle for the schemes being addressed. Is the Minister reasonably confident that the reputational damage done to charities in Ireland by their association, in almost all cases unwittingly, with these schemes has been addressed? Are we satisfied that they can no longer be utilised in the fashion they had been utilised? This issue has been discussed for a couple of years. Charities are important to the social and economic fabric, as well as to other elements of Irish life. It is wrong that they were utilised for a purpose which was far from the purpose of a charity in the ordinary meaning of the word.

At the end of the day, of course, there are very rich people - billionaires and multi-billionaires - who are investing in these vehicles, but there are also many ordinary people around the world, in Ireland and elsewhere, whose pensions are invested in some of these vehicles. If we want someone who has worked for 40 years to have a pension, having a properly functioning financial sector is appropriate. Most people cannot provide individually for a pension. They have to do so collectively using a savings vehicle. It is important to acknowledge that this is the kind of vehicle on which the social systems in so many countries are built. Workers put money aside from their current earnings to have it invested. Often it is a long-term capital investment. It is a good social model, provided that it is not abused through the exploitation of loopholes.

I do not need the answer right now, but I would like to know what anti-avoidance mechanisms are in place and if the Minister is satisfied that charities are now out of the game and that they can continue to operate in Ireland for proper charitable purposes. The other thing is that, with this type of investment vehicle, much of the decision-making on investing is made by algorithms. I do not know how well up Revenue and other countries are on algorithms, but Facebook uses them in a lot of political coverage and we have had a big debate about made news. The same is true of investment models in terms of the way IT structures are being developed and we should be aware of this. It means that Revenue needs resources to keep ahead of the game.

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