Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I recall attending a meeting of women in the Labour Party with the then leader of the party, Pat Rabbitte, sometime in the mid-2000s to discuss this at a time when organisations such as Ruhama, the Vincentian partnership, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and others were waging a fairly lonely battle first of all to educate people about the reality of life for people involved in prostitution and sex work. Notwithstanding the arguments around personal autonomy and the sale of sexual services, I have yet to see any convincing information that indicates that for any small significant number of people it is somehow or other a life-enhancing experience. We hear the arguments and we are all aware of the fears that something which is not really a monetary transaction could possibly be portrayed in that way. Prostitution is about the kind of money that people can make out of having women, children and men, particularly young men, in prostitution. Very few of them have the autonomy that some people like to indicate when they see this as a transaction where a service is exchanged for money voluntarily between people.

Dublin as a city and Ireland as a country have a long history of prostitution. There were certain areas in Dublin which were notorious for prostitution right up to and after the time of the Rising. Much of that part of the city is now gone but when James Connolly was writing about Dublin and when Sean O'Casey wrote his plays it was, in a city of soldiers, a very significant trade.

In recent decades much of that has moved indoors by arrangement and the is transacted on the Internet. We do not know the full extent of it but we have seen from the Turn Off the Red Light campaign the suggested figure of between 800 and 1,000 women involved every day in prostitution in Ireland. Think of the accumulation of misery that represents for those women, their families, their children and their wider circle of friends, and of the desperation that can drive people into prostitution, including those with addiction problems and other issues and their desperate attempts to try to ensure their children and families are looked after and that they do not lose their children. I cannot agree with people who see it as somehow life-enhancing and life-affirming. Like many others, I have seen Belle de Jourwith its notion of people being able to go out and make it.

This issue has been discussed in the Oireachtas for a long time. I particularly thank many of my colleagues in the Labour Party, such as Senator Ivana Bacik who has been a thought leader on this over a long time. We need to see this legislation brought into force. I also strongly welcome the details in the legislation which address issues such as grooming of children and the use of the Internet. I am sure many here have seen interviews with Christina Noble about child prostitution, child trafficking and child grooming that she particularly has worked to combat in Asia through her charity and her development work. This involves men, in particular, going on holidays to certain countries in the Far East and using child prostitutes as well as using older prostitutes of both sexes. It has to be a horrific experience for children. I welcome anything developed by our Legislature that makes for a stronger position in combating this and enhances the powers of the Garda.

I see the Garda vans and vehicles in areas where people are still walking the streets and it happens regularly in different parts of Dublin and other cities. Notwithstanding all the difficulties arising for people in respect of the strike, gardaí need to be commended on the work they have put in to developing a response. While as guardians of the law they seek to uphold the law, they have also shown, along with people from many different agencies in the health and caring areas, a huge amount of concern for the vulnerable people caught up in prostitution.

It is important to note that in the context of the likelihood of a Garda strike, which even at this late time we hope can be averted.

With regard to this legislation, the question arises as to whether it is perfect legislation. A great deal of work has been done to examine the response in Sweden, Norway and other Scandinavian countries in terms of the approach to criminalising the purchase of the sexual service as opposed to the provider of the service. Is the legislation perfect? This is an incredibly difficult issue for any society to address. I am open to reasoned arguments that seek to improve the legislation.

I welcome the criminalisation of the purchase of sex because that means, in effect, that the proceeds are the proceeds of a criminal act and therefore are open to the actions of the Criminal Assets Bureau. In its history the Criminal Assets Bureau has shown that it is well capable of targeting in particular those who are making significant amounts of money from this most cruel trade in terms of the people who are exploited by it.

The principle in regard to Al Capone was that the normal arm of the law could not reach him but following the money trail the authorities were able to affect his activities. With regard to gangs and individuals who are engaged in largescale trafficking, largescale prostitution, escort and sale of sex services, it will be appropriate for the CAB to go after those people who have accumulated large amounts of money.

We are all aware that prostitution and the sale of sexual services is heavily linked to criminal activity by gangs in terms of the trafficking of people, the drugs trade and the trade in weapons. If this measure gives the law in Ireland a stronger and greater reach in terms of dealing with these kinds of criminal activities, it will make a contribution to seeking to address this issue in Ireland.

In the context of some of the arguments put forward on the modern transactional approach and that because it is a transaction, somehow or other it is a freedom which must be recognised, there was an article in the American publication Vanity Fairrecently on escort services, sugar daddies, sugar babies and what is called in America the girlfriend experience. Some of the women described were extremely well educated women who are seeking to pay off debts or, in some cases, amass a sum of money for different purposes. The chilling part of it is that, notwithstanding that people may want to go into this either through desperation or because they see it as a limited action for a very limited period of time, the overwhelming evidence is that, ultimately, it is extremely degrading and there is very little evidence that it is producing good outcomes for the people involved. It is important that we should give some consideration to those new forms of prostitution and sale of sexual services that are emerging and that, in many cases, are enhanced by the availability of and ease of access to social media.

With regard to children, for all of us who are involved with children, either as parents, relatives or friends, strengthening our laws against children being groomed and our laws in regard to children generally is to be highly commended. When the Labour Party was in government, in conjunction with Fine Gael, we pursued this legislation. It has not been the easiest legislation to draft and then to seek to enact. There will be opportunities on Committee Stage to address some issues, particularly enhanced protection for some of the people involved in prostitution and the sale of sexual services who need additional protection. All of the organisations that have been involved and have given expert help and advice on this issue will be listened to carefully in terms of amendments but I hope that after a very long debate, which has gone on now for many years, we will see this legislation enacted by the Oireachtas.

I recall in the 1980s being involved with Attic Press and Irish Feminist Information when a groundbreaking book by June Levine on prostitution in Dublin entitled Lyn: A Story of Prostitutionwas published. It was the story of an individual who was caught up in prostitution and in horrific life situations. For many people at that time the book was an eye opener, but that is a long time ago. We have been having this debate for more than 30 years. It is time we enacted the legislation and sought both to deter prostitution but also to find ways of making life better for those who, for one reason or another, end up getting caught in its very cruel grip.

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