Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015 as it is good legislation. As has been pointed out by other speakers in this debate, there are gaps. It is the purpose of this debate and the process of legislating to identify these gaps, have a conversation about the issue and, as a House, try to make the legislation better and more effective.

I welcome very much the aspects in this Bill that relate specifically to the protection of children and the introduction of new offences in this regard. Certainly, the Bill provides a more effective response within our criminal justice system to sexual offences and it also responds to new and emerging threats, such as predatory activity targeting children via the Internet and social media. This is a very important aspect of the legislation because often the law has rightly been accused of lagging behind in terms of developments in technology. We can be very slow in catching up. It has been quite obvious for a number of years that online forums, social media and the Internet have been used to target and groom children who are quite unassuming and assume the best in people. They believe who they connect with online and that what the person is telling them is entirely factual, which is often not the case. Legislation like this extends protection to those children and creates offences where necessary, bringing us in line with European directives and law.

There are certain concerns around those aspects of the Bill and we certainly must ensure the legislation is robust and that we can improve conviction rates. We must also ensure there is proper supervision of offenders, that they are properly rehabilitated and that when they return to society, they are properly monitored and people do not re-offend. That must be one of the cornerstones of our approach.

In particular I will refer to the protection of women, specifically those who have suffered from sexual crimes. The National Women's Council of Ireland has said significant gaps remain in this legislation in the protection of women who have been victims of sexual offences. As has been eloquently described by Deputy Josepha Madigan, the absence of a definition of consent is a major concern. This has been highlighted by the Rape Crisis Centre, the National Women's Council of Ireland and a number of Deputies in the Chamber. Consent is defined in the UK and other jurisdictions and it is incumbent on us as legislators to ensure the definition is provided to the public and we legislate for it. At this time we can say that consent is a grey area, and it gives me no joy to say that. It should not be a grey area, as consent should be clear and defined. People should know what consent means. How can we be expected to educate young people on what consent is if we, as legislators, cannot put pen to paper and put a definition in place for the public to see in black and white?

It is very important that in line with this legislation and the proactive approach we are taking to tackling sexual offences crimes in this country, we tackle the perpetrators of these crimes and assist victims. We certainly need to include that definition of consent, and alongside that we should embark on a process of educating young people on what consent means. We should teach people not to rape and we should not go about teaching people how to avoid being raped. That is what we have done for recent years. We have looked to women to say how they can avoid being attacked and stop themselves being preyed upon. It is the wrong approach, and because of it, we have become quite complacent in society as to what is a sexual offence, assault and rape.

Every weekend women go into a bar or a nightclub and are groped and felt up, for want of a better phrase. People will turn to them and say their skirts are quite short or they had too many drinks, or they will ask if they were looking for it. That is the attitude taken by far too many people. I hope and I like to think the majority of us see that type of attitude as totally inappropriate and quite disgusting. Unless we go about educating our young people from early teenage years as to what consent means, we will continue to have the devastating effects on victims of sexual offences within society. We will continue to see case after case going before the justice system, with people outlining cases in which they have been sexually assaulted or raped. They have to go down that horrific process involving the courts system.

The next part of the legislation has been addressed by my colleague, Deputy Jack Chambers. It is the access of counsel for the defendant to the counselling notes of the abused person. I am not sure how that is justified as any access to counselling notes should be completely prohibited. Therapy or counselling should be taken with the knowledge of the person seeking those services that it will always be in confidence and what people say to their counsellor or therapist will always be in confidence. It completely undermines access to those services if, in the back of a person's mind, he or she thinks that at some point the public or the person who has committed abuse could have access to those notes. Not only could the abusers have access to the notes but they can be used as a tool to beat the defendant and hurt that person. I welcome that access is limited and that is a positive step. However, I fail to see how in any circumstances counsel for the defendant or the defendant himself or herself can make any argument for access to counselling notes. I just do not see the reason, although I am open to being corrected. On balance, it is far more detrimental to the victim and we should look at it.

I will comment briefly on the broader issue of trials for sexual offences, especially the traumatic and harrowing process that victims must often go through. It is widely known that if an individual is put through the criminal justice system, with a case taken to the courts and a wish to prosecute the person who has hurt, harmed or sexually assaulted or raped the individual, that individual will have to give evidence in open court. There is often the possibility or probability that previous sexual history will be brought up for all to see and know about, and it will be used somehow to discredit the testimony of the person against a defendant. That is the reason so few women are willing to come forward and go through the court system. They know that previous sexual history and character will be attacked, and it will be there for family, friends and the public to see and hear about. For many victims, it is just too much to deal with and they do not want to go down that path. It is something we must certainly examine.

I will take the final few minutes to address the aspect of the Bill that criminalises the purchase of sexual services. I welcome this but I do so with caution. It is a positive step in that it puts the responsibility and onus back on those who traffic women, purchasing sex from vulnerable women and, often and unfortunately, vulnerable minors. We know many of those who work in prostitution are considered children as they are under 18. These are clearly very vulnerable women if they are going into that work.

It is worth noting that some women enter into that type of work consensually, but it is a very small number. For most people, they are in that position because they have nowhere else to go or turn to. It is a case of doing this or they do not survive.

Until now, all the responsibility rested on the shoulders of those selling sex without any consideration as to why they were doing it. However, I worry about the effects the legislation may have on the industry. It is one of the oldest industries in the world and this type of work was around before many other types of work existed. We would find it difficult to eradicate the selling of sex in this or any other country. However, that should not prevent us from protecting those in the industry or from doing everything we can to get them out of it while ensuring they are not criminalised or prohibited from accessing services. Deputy Shortall referred earlier to courts fining women for selling sex when they are clearly victims. They are not engaged in this practice because they want to nor are they consenting to engage in it because they have been trafficked or forced into it. It may seem like a small sum of money but the fact that a punishment was dished out to these women sends out the wrong message to those in the industry that if they seek help, it is possible they will be locked up or face other criminal sanctions. That would leave many women and children feeling vulnerable and feeling as they have nowhere else to turn.

We need to examine how we deal with victims in the context of trafficking and prostitution and ensure that if there is any way they can get out of the industry, they know where to go and who to turn to, and that they know they will be protected and looked after and given the treatment they need to make a recovery. We are not doing enough in this regard and I share the concerns of other Members that the criminalisation of the purchase of services could drive the industry further underground. Everything we do to assist women who are being trafficked needs to upset the criminal gangs and their operations and make it as difficult as possible for them to traffic women into the country, hold on to them and to make a profit out of vulnerable women and children. I welcome the provisions in this regard. They are a step in the right direction but, as previous speakers said, we will need to review the legislation in a year or two using data to assess its impact on the industry to ensure what is proposed does not harm victims further.

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