Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I like living in this country. I think that as a Republic we are a success, although not in every way. We all have failings. People watching the proceedings of this House might on occasion think we are a shower of clowns and as such we are not a success. I have an endearing respect for the State. I respect the flag, the harp and our institutions. I am currently reading a book about the history of the 1916 Rising by Charles Townsend, an English historian who writes brilliantly about the men whose statues are displayed around this House. I have huge regard for them in the context of the foundation of our State and for their inspiration in starting that. I also read another book by Charles Townsend about the period 1920-1921, which inspired me even more. We won our independence through the people's courts. Through our collective refusal to recognise English law our country became ungovernable and we made a historical leap. The collective sense that we were able to manage our own legal system broke an empire. I still get that sense when I go into courts and I see the same iconography, the same flag, the same harp. The Acting Chairman, Deputy Catherine Connolly, knows that the courts in this country are not all flash and modern: they are old, decrepit and run down in many ways but I get a certain pride from that.

I am nervous about speaking from personal experience. To be honest, I believe one of the strengths of our judicial system is its independence. Much as I respect what I have heard this evening from Deputy Mattie McGrath and Deputy Clare Daly and yesterday from Deputy Paul Murphy in terms of their experiences in their individual court cases, I am slightly nervous of our mixing personal experience of the judicial system with our role, which is to legislate and be connected with the courts in an integrated synchronised way to protect and develop our constitutional Republic, which I stand by, as I am sure everybody else here does too. My experience, although I do not propose to speak about any individual court case, is one of concern. I recall being told by friends of mine, one of whom is a sergeant in the Garda Síochána, that a particular person would not make it because he or she was not the right political colour. One might similarly hear at The Bar that a particular person is likely to get a case because he or she is of the right political colour. There is that sense in The Bar that to get appointed a person has to be part of one tribe or another. I do not like that. I do not think it sits with the tradition of an independent Judiciary that has the confidence of all the people, which was the foundation stone of our State in 1918-1919 when we took onto ourselves a separate judicial system, a people's court system.

I would like to relate one other personal experience which occurred towards the end of my time in government, which was a particularly tense and difficult time within this State. During my time as a Minister with responsibility in the industrial area I was approached by someone who was interested in investing in the State. The investment never took place and so it does not matter. However, I met the person in the context of trying to encourage investment in the country. The person, who was an intellectual who came from a country with a lesser independent judicial system, told me that he or she wanted to invest in Ireland because this is one of the few countries in the world where a person can take a case against the Government and have a 50:50 chance of winning, depending on the merits of the case. I note the Minister, Deputy Ross, is nodding. That is a reasonable characteristic of the independence of our judicial system. It says something about the strength of this country.

Deputy Clare Daly is correct that every court is important. The District Court, in terms of how a judge applies the law, is as important in some ways as the Supreme Court. That is the strength of our State. The people's court starts with how we treat every citizen in the District Court. For all our failings, including in the judicial system and the appointment of judges, in which I was involved when my party was in government, although I was not particularly comfortable with the nature of the judicial appointments process, in terms of appointments to the High Court and the Supreme Court, we have managed to maintain an independent Judiciary, to appoint some of our best people to the Supreme Court and to develop on the founding strength we had in 1919 or 1920.

Deputy O'Callaghan's proposal is a positive one in that it retains the final selection process within the political system, which I believe is right. I believe that constitutional balance is right. I do not believe we should be handing the entire selection process over to some independent so-called arbitration system. It is right that be retained by this assembly of Deputies, which is akin in some ways to the very juries that are the cornerstone of our judicial system. We are ordinary citizens who happen to be elected representatives. It is appropriate that our elected Cabinet, similar to a jury - there are 15 members of Cabinet and 12 members on a jury - would make the final call. It is equally appropriate that we try to wash away some of the legacies of tribal politics around whether a barrister is a Fine Gael barrister, a Fianna Fail barrister, a Labour Party barrister or a Green Party barrister. I do not think that is necessarily strong or good for our judicial system. The proposal advanced in this Bill is that a public appointments system would present a choice to Government and the representatives of this House but that the final choice would rest with the political system. Part of the strength of, and reason for, our independence is our strong independent constitutional system. Part of that is this House and the Government which makes the Executive decisions which have to be tested in this House.

Drawing again on personal experience I have a friend who was very involved for many years in environmental campaigning in India, a country with a similar constitutional structure, very much inspired by our independence revolution movement and our ability to break from the empire. The parallels are uncannily close. The Indians fought in huge numbers - approximately 1 million, I think - in the First World War with the promise of home rule which was never delivered, similar to the Arab people. India finally achieved its independence and established a constitution that is very similar to ours. It has had a slightly different experience in that while its high courts are very proper and, no doubt, august and independent, much of its judicial system is not to my mind as independent as ours has proven to be.

We need to be careful and to look after the baby as we change the bath water. The proposal from Fianna Fáil in this case does that. The Green Party is happy to support this Bill, to stand up for the independence of our judicial system and the right of the political system to be the final arbiter of choice and to stand up for the Republic as ordinary citizens representing people in this House in the same way as ordinary citizens stand in a court as part of a jury to make decisions on behalf of all other citizens. That is right and proper. It is what we all seek to defend today.

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