Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

If Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin is present, I will yield five minutes of my time to her.

Tá má sásta seasamh anseo agus labhairt ar son na scoileanna, na hollscoileanna agus córas oideachais na tíre seo. Níl aon dabht ach go bhfuil ganntanais móra sa chóras sin. Tá a lán ag teastáil ó dhaoine. Tá tuilleadh múinteoirí, áiseanna agus scoileanna ag teastáil. Níl aon dabht ach go bhfuil tuilleadh pá ag teastáil ó mhúinteoirí. Tá a lán dúshlán againn sa chóras seo. Caithfimid obair le chéile ar son an chórais oideachais, ar son na mic léinn agus ar son na múinteoirí. We recognise that some progress has been made in this budget and on some key educational priorities of our party which we insisted on as part of the confidence and supply arrangement with Fine Gael. We enabled this progress to happen by taking our own leadership responsibilities seriously, by recognising that my party leader did not have enough votes to become Taoiseach and acknowledging that somebody else did but in that engagement we made sure that the policies we prioritised would be implemented. Some of those policies have been listed by Members here. It would have been very easy for us to say we did not want anything to do with it but we took the responsible course that will see some of those policies delivered.

Despite the Labour Party having been in office for the past five years, some really unfair decisions were taken on education, several of which members of the party had to fight in order to protect the education system. We recall Pat Rabbitte hosting a large meeting of the Labour Parliamentary Party to reverse savage cuts that former Minister Ruairí Quinn proposed. Several shortsighted cuts have impacted heavily on students and teachers, particularly students from disadvantaged backgrounds, such as the cuts to special needs assistants, SNAs, and resource teaching and the savage cut in guidance counselling. I do not know who thought that one up. I am proud to say several Fianna Fáil Ministers have pushed forward guidance counselling over 40 years, starting with Paddy Hillery. I am glad that our party has been instrumental in bringing back the ex quota system of guidance counselling because never has it been more necessary not simply for career guidance, but also for mental health. On the one hand, the Government is developing mental health strategies for second level schools, referring to guidance counsellors, and, on the other, guidance counsellors are being taken away from schools. We have to get this job right.

We also see in the confidence and supply agreement the start of the rowing back on the other disgraceful cut removing postgraduate student grants. Students on the lowest income will receive them as they start college next year. That is very welcome. If we want to have a knowledge economy and a society that values learning, we must allow every section of society to engage in postgraduate education. The numbers entering postgraduate education since that cut dropped by 5%. That has had a devastating effect not just on the poorest families, but also society as a whole because we value learning and continuous learning.

We welcome the increase in teacher numbers but that is simply to keep pace with demographics. It had to happen and the money has been found for it, but it has not led to a reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio. That is one of the conditions in the confidence and supply arrangement whereby we sit back at budget time, the election of a Taoiseach and confidence votes. We need to get our policies implemented. We look forward to more progress on the pupil-teacher ratio. We will highlight it over the coming year as the debate on the next budget starts earlier than ever before through the committee system, and will look for it to be prioritised and to make sure the money is available to make the classes smaller, particularly for the youngest age group. Some students at third level are in classes of more than 500. They can cope with that, although it is not entirely satisfactory, but class sizes at primary level of up to 40 pupils and more in some cases are not acceptable. We have to work to ensure that those very small children have the best possible learning opportunity.

I will not dwell on the Labour Party tactic in the last Government because it did not work too well but it eroded many remarkable advances in education. Some of the worst decisions of that five years were not simply in terms of cuts, but were a clear policy direction. Several schemes to tackle educational disadvantage and access were abolished. Ruairí Quinn effectively abolished postgraduate grants in 2012, except in one category, which was inconsistent with all the talk about a high-skill smart economy. It was devastatingly regressive. It compounded inequality by creating an advantage for families that could afford it. That was not what I expected from the Labour Party and it is not what we want from society. I am glad we have got that changed.

In 2011, guidance counselling became part of the staffing schedule and its ex quota aspect was removed. In schools with a better socio-economic background, that did not make a difference but other schools noticed a difference and many students were left out and did not get the guidance they needed. Somebody was not there for them in a time of need or, in fact, if somebody was there for them that person had to come out of the history or English class where they had been redeployed to give that guidance. That is what was happening over recent years. Our party is very happy to see that guidance counselling is now ex quota so that a guidance counsellor will not be in an English class when a crisis arises. That is a significant achievement. It took a lot of talking with the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, to remind him of what was in the confidence and supply agreement but that job has been done.

The Labour Party lost many votes because of what it did and did not do in respect of higher education. That is a fact. We welcome the publication of the Cassells report on higher education. Since its publication, we initiated a debate in our party about funding for higher education. Politically, it is not the most vote winning idea. No one will go back to a constituency and get a pile of votes for trying to deliver for third level. The right thing to do for our country, society, young people and third level teachers is to try to work together to provide that funding. In our manifesto, we identified a gap of approximately €100 million per annum. The Cassells report identified a similar gap.

We are not happy that €100 million has not been delivered. However, we are happy that €36.5 million has been delivered and that, for the first time in years, some State funding has been added to the pot for third level education because in the past, the student registration increased and the State funding decreased. That was the Labour Party way. Whatever model of funding is decided on eventually, and the Oireachtas committee will examine that and some Government, although possibly not this minority one, will have to decide on a fair way to fund third level education to ensure people have access to it but no matter what decision is taken, it will require more State funding. We have to get to first base on that. It needs more State funding, and while the €36.5 million that has been allocated is welcome, it is not enough. It was the result of political pressure my leader and my party put on over recent weeks and months. Absent from the Government's action plan on education was hardly any mention of third level funding and when it came to budget time, we were told there is a three year strategy in place in terms of third level funding. I agree with Deputy Burton that this demonstrates a total lack of vision regarding education. Instead of sitting down and having an overall vision, the Minister and the Department are reacting to events. Fianna Fáil identified this funding gap in our manifesto. The Cassells report was published, and we imposed serious pressure to get that funding delivered because there is a huge deterioration, particularly in the staff-student ratio at third level. The average staff-student ratio in the OECD is 14:1. In Ireland, it is 19.5:1 at this stage. That is an issue that will begin to be addressed because if that funding was not allocated, the problem would just get worse because there will be increasing numbers of students.

We will have to consider also the type of vision that Fianna Fáil Governments demonstrated in the past in terms of establishing the regional college network and when Blanchardstown Institute of Technology was established. We will have to establish another college somewhere because in terms of the demographics coming up through the system at primary level, and it is starting to go into secondary level, now is the time to plan the type of extra third level provision we will need over the next ten or 12 years and identify the location, skillsets and all that goes with that because it is an issue we have to take seriously.

The average class size in Ireland is 25. It is greater than the European average, which is 21. However, there are a huge number of small schools here which affects the average. Approximately 130,000 children, including all three of my children, are in super-sized classes of more than 30 students. That figure is up from 96,000 in the school year 2006-07, which admittedly was at the height of the resources that would have been available. Almost 10,000 children are in classes of more than 35 students. That cannot continue. As a first step to ease that burden, Fianna Fáil will be pushing to reduce class sizes at primary level, and we have already got a commitment on that in the confidence and supply arrangement. We want the Government to reduce them to an average class size of a maximum of 23 children. Over the term of the Government, from the next budget on, year on year, we believe the ambition should be to progressively implement one point reductions in the scale, prioritising the youngest children under nine years of age where lower ratios have been shown to have the greatest impact.

With everything that is being said and done currently with regard to teachers, we must always remember that teachers are one of the fundament building blocks of our society and the community in which we live. To a large degree, they are the people to whom we sub-contract the education, the imparting of knowledge and the forming of knowledge to our children when they are at school. I am sure every colleague here will agree that the work of teachers is appreciated by this Dáil so we have to make sure that in terms of the public sector pay commission announced today by the Government, something Fianna Fáil demanded as part of the confidence and supply arrangement, the role of teachers in shaping our economy and our society is addressed. First and foremost, we must get the pay scales fully equalised. I acknowledge that significant progress was made over the summer in terms of restoring the allowances and building them into the pay scales. That has been done, and the INTO and the TUI members will notice that in their wages next year. They will also notice the benefits of the Lansdowne Road agreement and the restoration of income to their pay. That is very welcome. Like everybody else, I wish it could be more but it is significant.

Some teachers will get significant pay rises next year if they are in the INTO and the TUI. The ASTI members will not get that because they have chosen to remain outside the Lansdowne Road agreement. This and that has been said about the ASTI teachers. The average ASTI teacher is a very middle of the road person, generally speaking, from very good schools. They do a very good job, and if one meets them they will say they have the education of their children as their first priority. Strikes are planned, and other industrial action is planned also. They are meeting with the Government on that but I ask the ASTI members to examine the benefits that are available to their colleagues in the TUI and the INTO to see if they would like to be part of that and to receive those benefits. Every major party in this Dáil, except the small left wing parties, supports the Lansdowne Road agreement because we realise there is a certain amount of money available. All the unions in the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Government have got together and negotiated this to try to get the best possible deal for them. We might not agree with every aspect of it, but it seems to me to be a reasonable attempt to work out a fair deal for unwinding the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation. It is part of rowing that back.

If we rowed it back immediately, it would cost €2.3 billion, as has been often quoted. A huge amount of that would go to higher paid civil servants because they are getting much greater benefit than those at the lower end. We cannot unwind it all at once. We have to unwind it very carefully, going from low to high. Already, some of those at the very bottom of the scale will be on slightly more pay than they were on in 2008. We would like them to have even more, but the unwinding is happening at a progressive rate. We want to see that continuing to happen.

The Minister of State should see himself not just as part of a Government that is on another side in the negotiations with unions. He can also be an advocate for teachers. He can be somebody who says that we value what teachers do, that this is the direction in which he sees the teaching profession going, and that this is the value we put on teachers as educators and as the building blocks of society and of our economy. That message can be sent to get goodwill among the sector, and the public service pay commission will play an important role in that regard. If the opportunity arises, I look forward to making a submission to it on the work of teachers and other staff throughout the education sector; it is not all about teachers.

With regard to the ASTI, its members should look at what is available and on what they are losing out. I am not in the business of having arguments with them. I am in the business of listening to them and their many and various concerns. They should look at what is available to see if there is a realistic possibility of a better deal.

There is a realistic possibility of making further progress on the question of the young teachers. We have already made a substantial move on that within the Lansdowne Road agreement. There is no reason we cannot show the way on that, and move even further forward on it. Everyone accepts that it cannot all be done on day one but if we say to them that this is what we can them, it will indicate a seriousness of intent to eliminate that discrepancy.

We have tabled an amendment to the motion that recognises the items we have done and acknowledges some of our concerns. In terms of education, however, most of us here would prefer to work together to ensure we get the best possible system, the best pay for our teachers, the best outcomes for our young people, and the best value for society because that is what it is all about.

Níl mé chun mórán eile a rá, ach ba mhaith liom críochnú trí thrácht a dhéanamh ar thábhacht na Gaeilge sa chóras oideachais. Tá sé mar sheasamh ag Fianna Fáil go bhfuil sé tábhachtach an Ghaeilge a choimeád i gcroílár an chórais sin agus freisin gur cheart níos mó dul chun cinn a dhéanamh ar theangacha eile. Foghlaimíonn daltaí Gaeilge, Fraincis, Gearmáinis agus teangacha eile ar scoil.

Caithfimid torthaí na foghlama sin a dhéanamh níos fearr. Ba cheart dúinn a chinntiú go bhfuil daoine flúirseach sa Ghaeilge, agus sna teangacha eile atá foghlamtha acu, nuair a thagann siad amach as an gcóras scolaíochta. Is léir go bhfuil ag teip orainn sa dúshlán sin faoi láthair. Tá a lán oibre le déanamh. Ba mhaith liom níos mó a dhéanamh. Measaim go n-aontóidh an Leas-Cheann Comhairle liom gur chóir do Theachtaí sa Dáil seo níos mó Gaeilge a labhairt sna díospóireachtaí éagsúla, seachas díospóireachtaí ar an nGaeilge amháin. Thaispeánfadh sé sin do dhaoine go bhfuil an teanga beo agus tábhachtach agus go bhfuil toradh úsáideach as foghlaim na Gaeilge ar scoil.

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