Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I will not use the entire 30-minute slot. I welcome the Bill and the Labour Party will support it, as we did in the Seanad. I know the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Fitzgerald, has just gone but I commend her because there has been a great deal of work done and commitment shown in this very detailed legislation, which addresses a number of areas around criminal law and sexual offences. I commend many of the organisations, some of which have been mentioned here, that have contributed to and helped to shape the Bill. The Turn Off the Red Light campaign was particularly strong, vocal and effective. Other groups involved include the Immigrant Council of Ireland, Ruhama, the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, the Rape Crisis Network, Dublin Rape Crisis Centre and others I could name. There has been a great deal of interest in the importance of having this comprehensive legislation put on the Statute Book. It is welcome that we are having the opportunity to debate it in the Dáil, having seen it go through the Seanad.

It is a genuinely reforming Bill that makes substantive and significant changes to the law on sexual offences. The Minister, in presenting the Bill, spoke about how other sides were put on some of these issues, particularly with regard to sex workers and an emphasis on the purchaser of sex rather than the sex worker.

We have all heard the other side of the argument but it is interesting to note that the Deputies from all political parties who have spoken so far are in favour of the approach taken in the Bill. I agree with that and believe it is a really effective way of protecting vulnerable women and ensuring that the focus is put on the crime of purchasing sex rather than on the often exploited sex worker. That is a very important part of this legislation. It is also probably the part that has received the most attention but, having said that, there are many other elements of the Bill that are also very important, to which I now wish to turn.

I am particularly happy with the provisions in Part 2 of the Bill which deal with the sexual exploitation of children. There is a series of measures here relating to obtaining or providing a child for the purposes of sexual exploitation, grooming, sexual activity in the presence of a child, causing a child to watch sexual activity and meeting a child for the purpose of sexual exploitation. On the last point, we are all aware of grooming online and the Bill also refers to the use of information and communications technology to facilitate the sexual exploitation of children. This is an area that will require constant monitoring to find effective ways of policing online grooming and exploitation. As we know, this is an area that is moving so quickly. Whenever we close off some avenue or loophole, another one is opened up. There is an enormous amount of online exploitation now that is very difficult to control. I was discussing a case today and while I am not going to go into the specifics here, it was clear to me that even if one tries to close down information that is on Facebook or elsewhere or to prevent people from uploading pornography, people seem to be able to find ways around it. Actually closing down or getting rid of that information seems to be virtually impossible. This is an area which we must monitor all the time. That said, at least the measures in the Bill address these activities but they are difficult to actually stop.

The Bill also deals with the production of child pornography and the participation of a child in pornographic performance. Again, this is something that is really worrying and quite widespread. It is important that these are made offences, along with the possession of child pornography. The Bill also deals with sexual acts with a child under the age of 15. All of these measures are particularly important in relation to children because of their extraordinary vulnerability and I welcome them very much.

The Minister and Deputy Jonathan O'Brien both mentioned some of the sensible changes that are proposed in the Bill, particularly concerning the defence of an honest mistake as to the age of a child and in respect of consensual, under age peer relationships. Again, these have been areas of contention in the past but the measures in this Bill are sensible and are to be welcomed.

The Bill also proposes changes to the law on criminal evidence dealing with the disclosure of third-party records, including counselling records, which have been carefully drafted following input from many concerned bodies and individuals. There are new provisions to grant protection against personal cross-examination by the accused in sex offence trials where a witness is under age. I will deal with that in more detail later.

I also welcome Part 3 of the Bill, which amends the 1993 Act in relation to a person who lacks capacity to consent, described as a protected person. I noted Deputy Jonathan O'Brien's point that the language used is not really in line with other descriptions. Perhaps that issue can be debated further on Committee Stage. That said, it is really important to protect people with an intellectual disability and I welcome this measure.

Part 4 deals with the purchase of sexual services and I support the provisions therein. This is one of the areas in which there has been a huge amount of interest. The Turn Off the Red Light campaign, in particular, highlighted this issue. I remember attending various briefings by that campaign at the earlier stages of the consideration of this legislation. I want to quote from one of the many e-mails I have received on this matter:

Prostitution is a violent, vicious, exploitative, criminal enterprise which has to be disrupted at the point of sale. Ireland now has a chance to join the growing list of countries putting the organised crime behind this exploitation out of business.

That really is the purpose of the measures in this part of the Bill. I know that there was considerable discussion on this at earlier stages in committee hearings and so on, where a variety of organisations spoke on the issue. The Labour Party welcomes the measures contained in the Bill in this regard. That said, I want to signal one concern about an aspect of the Bill on which we table an amendment on Committee Stage and to which the Minister alluded to earlier.

Our concern relates to the fact that although these new provisions are generally welcome, making it an offence to pay for sex and favouring instead vulnerable female sex workers, the Bill not only preserves intact the current law prohibiting soliciting and importuning it, but by creating the new offence of paying a prostitute for sex, it makes the payment the proceeds of crime. While we absolutely support the idea that traffickers, controllers and pimps should be subject to the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, we do not believe that the vulnerable sex worker should be so subject. The law at present does not criminalise either the purchase or the sale of sex, although it prohibits soliciting and importuning in a public place by either party. However, by prohibiting the purchase of sex, even though its sale is not banned, the purchase money will become the proceeds of crime in the hands or the bank account of the sex worker. Even though the sex worker will herself have committed no offence, these new provisions, if left unchanged, far from improving her situation have the potential to make a vulnerable and possibly exploited sex worker even more exposed to both the processes of law and to improper threats and menaces.

Under these new provisions, it will be possible, without criminal prosecutions or convictions, for CAB to proceed against reputed sex workers. CAB will be authorised to move in court to have their money and property assets confiscated on the basis of the civil burden of proof. We will be proposing one amendment to this Bill to prevent this situation from occurring. We will be proposing that money or any other form of remuneration or consideration that is paid or given to a sex worker in return for sexual services shall not, by reason only of the creation of this new offence, be deemed to be the proceeds of crime for the purposes of the Proceeds of Crime Acts 1996 to 2016. We believe that an amendment along these lines is necessary to protect sex workers from what would otherwise be an impossible situation. Otherwise, this Bill which has been signalled as improving their situation could, if the amendment is not accepted, plunge them into far greater insecurity, where they are hounded for everything they own beyond €5,000. I do not think any of us wants to see that happening. I understand that the Minister recognises that this is an issue but she does not necessarily see our proposal as the solution. She may well come up with a solution of her own and, if so, we will be happy to accept it. This issue must be examined and one way or another, we must find a solution. We cannot accept a law reform measure which instead of improving the lot of a vulnerable and exploited group, as we all intend, has the potential to make their lot a great deal worse. That is just one area in the section about which we are concerned. As I said, we will be supporting the Bill but will be proposing that particular amendment.

I wish to touch on some of the other sections of the Bill now, particularly that section dealing with the protection of victims of sexual offences during the criminal trial process, which I welcome.

I particularly welcome the protection of child victims of sexual offences from any additional trauma. For example, it will be possible for a child victim to give evidence from behind a screen and for a person accused of a sexual offence to be prevented from personally cross-examining a person under the age of 18. That is important. I can imagine that it would be extremely difficult for a person under the age of 14 to be cross-examined directly by a person who is accused of committing a sexual offence against him or her. I welcome the provision in the Bill that a court may direct that an accused person may not personally cross-examine a child between the ages of 14 and 18. It is obvious that there has to be a fair trial, but there are issues of protection here as well. A Deputy asked about the provision of protection for adult victims. The Minister has indicated she might be able to address that issue as well.

The further measures in relation to exposure are also welcome. Under section 45 of the Bill, which relates to harassment, a court can impose an order prohibiting a convicted sex offender from contacting or approaching his victim for a specified period of time. People often feel very threatened by somebody who has been convicted of such an offence and it is important that they are protected. I recently had a discussion about somebody who felt very fearful in a post-trial situation. Those measures are important as well.

We very much welcome this Bill, which has been in gestation for quite some time. Many people have made contributions to it. There have been discussions with non-governmental organisations and other bodies and with experts like Dr. Geoffrey Shannon. I would also like to mention the contribution of the committee, of which I was not a member. I know the committee has done excellent work as well. I am happy to say that the Labour Party will be supporting the Bill.

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