Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

With regard to the discussions with Chancellor Merkel on Brexit, we know there is a lack of preparation on the British side and Britain is now in the process of trying to get its act together in regard to negotiations but it can be said the position in regard to Europe is equally unclear. I get the sense that, across Europe, there seems to be a view that Brexit is no longer the central issue, that we can get on fine without Britain and so on. That is a dangerous view because, in my view, there is a mutual interdependence between the United Kingdom and the European Union in terms of the volume of trade between both markets and the value system we embrace within the EU in terms of basic democracy, respect for human rights and the underpinning democratic principles. I believe the dilution and reduction in the size and scale of the EU is a blow to democracy, ultimately, and to the idea of progressive values. Whereas we all have faults and every member state has faults, some more than others, Europe needs to change its attitude at all levels towards the UK and Brexit.

I suspect, and the Taoiseach might confirm, that the Chancellor may be more of that disposition and I think Germany realises the mutual interdependence between the UK and the EU.

We need to see more of that attitude to the fore in the discussions that will take place once Article 50 is commenced by the British Government. On the British side, there are people who are ridiculously posturing in terms of a hard Brexit, with groups being formed within the Tory Party to say Brexit means Brexit, with calamitous results both for the British people in terms of the economy and economic growth and jobs but likewise it is of no great benefit to Europe either because Europe will equally lose out in such a scenario because unexpected consequences could flow from a difficult separation, as it were. There is much uncharted territory in terms of Brexit. Did the Taoiseach get an indication from the Chancellor as to how Germany intends to approach the issue, in particular within the European Union?

Second, in terms of what is happening in Syria, this refugee crisis is without question unprecedented and represents one of the greatest scandals and appalling misery visited on a people since the Second World War and its aftermath. It is fair to say that the international institutions, including the European Union, have not responded properly, adequately or comprehensively enough to what is a refugee crisis caused by war. It is not about normal economic migration or asylum seeking. It is a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions which will continue.

To be fair to Chancellor Merkel, she made perhaps one of the bravest moves across Europe and is suffering electorally at the polls because of that. The European Union’s relationship with Russia must come into question following what has happened in recent days in Aleppo. There seems to be great reluctance in some quarters to call it as it is. Some journalists in The Guardianand elsewhere have described the razing of Aleppo, including the bombing of aid convoys, as equivalent to what happened in Stalingrad. It is very clear that the Russia-Syrian Government alliance is responsible for the assault that is currently under way in eastern Aleppo. People in this House need to call that for what it is as well. It is unacceptable. To be fair, at the United Nations, people took their gloves off in terms of articulating the unacceptable nature of what is going on. The situation calls into question in a very fundamental way the relationship between the European Union and Russia, which is already strained due to sanctions imposed on foot of the situation in Ukraine, but what is going on currently is at a new level.

Hungary also needs to be taken on within the European Union. I do not know whether the Taoiseach has had discussions with Chancellor Merkel on the matter but the Hungarian Prime Minister’s utterances in the past week are shocking and completely contrary to any European set of values. He talked about ring-fencing a city in an island somewhere off the Libyan coast to put all the refugees. The stage must come when Europe either means something in terms of a basic value system or it does not. We cannot just accommodate everybody because we want to be nice to everybody and say it is great to have 28, or now 27, members in the European Union. The Hungarian Government has an obligation to subscribe to the core values and principles of the European Union. It is entitled to disagree but Hungary is not entitled to be part of the European Union given the kind of inflammatory, unacceptable rhetoric emanating recently from its government.

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