Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the legislation which has been brought to the House by the Minister. It was supported by Fianna Fáil in Seanad Éireann and we will also support it in this House. It is important to echo and emphasise what the Minister stated in her remarks about the importance of the Oireachtas sending out a strong united message to individuals involved in crime. This message will be sent out if we can get agreement on this legislation, get it passed, signed and brought into force before the recess.

Legislation in many instances is a response to actual events that have happened. This is why it is always important to be able to look at legislation with the knowledge of the historical events that gave rise to it. Somebody who looks at the 1996 Acts on the Criminal Assets Bureau and on the proceeds of crime will not know what gave rise to their introduction. As we know, the Acts were introduced because of the terrible murder of journalist, Veronica Guerin. They were a united and effective response by the Oireachtas 20 years ago to what was a serious threat to people in our community as a result of organised drug trafficking and gangland crime.

Similarly, this legislation has been introduced by the Minister as a response to actual events that have happened. The events to which the House seeks to respond in legislation are the terrible murders that have taken place in the city and beyond a result of an unacceptable gangland feud that has targeted individuals in those gangs but has also brought terror to very vulnerable communities in the city and beyond. It is extremely important that we, as an Oireachtas, send a united message in response to this.

The legislation brought forward by the Minister is effective in proposing one of the solutions to deal with the problems that have arisen as a result of gangland crime. We need to challenge these criminal activities in a multifaceted and varied way. The response we need is not just limited to amending the proceeds of crime legislation. We also need a response in terms of changing how the Garda polices, more effective Garda policing and greater resources.

We also need education in respect of the issues driving these gangland feuds. The bedrock on which gangland crime is built is the drugs trade. We need to educate and remind young people and parents of the dangers of getting involved in taking drugs. Nothing good comes from individuals getting involved in and taking drugs. Sometimes we send out ambiguous messages to young people. We need to send out a strong message. We have strong messages about how it is unacceptable and dangerous for children and adults to use drugs which are legalised, such as alcohol and tobacco. We also need to have an education programme for young people about illegal drugs and the danger of using them. At present we do not have an education programme in this respect, which is something the House needs to consider.

Other responses to gangland crime must include changes to our criminal law to make it more effective. It is obvious, although it is regrettable, that our criminal law in certain instances finds it difficult to deal with gangland crime, where individuals who appear before our courts to give evidence against individuals involved in gangland crime face the threat of being killed or seriously injured. Our criminal law is able to deal with this but we must recognise there are threats to the effectiveness of our criminal law as a result of the extraordinary violence being used by certain individuals to protect their wealth and themselves. This is why the legislation introduced 20 years ago was so effective. It is not, as the Minister said, criminal law. It is, however, a change to the civil law. It provides that the proceeds of crime may be seized. What is proposed, we believe, is an effective and appropriate extension of the legislation which has been in existence for 20 years but which needs to be used more by the Criminal Assets Bureau.

When I was appointed as the Fianna Fáil Front Bench spokesperson on justice, the first visit Deputy Micheál Martin and I paid was to the communities in north inner city which, at the time, were extremely fearful of the ongoing gangland crime. The people there said to us, and I know they probably said the same to the Minister and the Taoiseach when they visited subsequently, and to other Deputies from the constituency who met local groups, that what they really wanted to see was a mini-CAB. They explained this term as wanting to be able to have in their communities an effective deterrent whereby individuals who are able to go around showing the proceeds and wealth of crime could have their assets seized by an administrative or judicial decision, provided it could be established that what they had was, in fact, the proceeds of crime. I am pleased to say the proposal contained in the legislation and in legislation which I drafted and sent to the Minister, and I commend her for considering it, provides for this mini-CAB because it reduces the minimum threshold at which proceeds can be seized from €13,000 to €5,000. This will have an impact in the areas where there are proceeds of crime and gives an opportunity for them to be seized, provided it can reasonably and accurately be established they are the proceeds of crime.

One of the substantive and most interesting sections of the Bill put forward by the Minister is the change whereby if the law is passed we will have a new power of seizure and detention of property. The purpose of this is that a bureau officer who encounters an individual and notices immediately the individual is in possession of property he or she believes is the proceeds of criminal activity and which exceeds €5,000 can be seized and held for a period of 24 hours. It is extremely important in the legislation we introduce to have measures and provisions in place to ensure these powerful and draconian statutory provisions are not abused. For this reason, the power is only given to a bureau officer to seize the property for 24 hours. After this, it can be held for a further of 21 days provided the chief bureau officer is satisfied there are reasonable grounds for suspecting it is the proceeds of criminal activity.

There is also the safety mechanism that an application can be made to the court, which is the place where the rights of individuals are vindicated. I hope it will not occur but it is possible that individuals will have property wrongfully seized under the legislation. The protection and safety net is there because an application can be made to the court, which can make an order reversing what is provided for. It can also make an order paying compensation if it is shown to be the case the property was not the proceeds of crime and had been wrongfully confiscated.

This is a very powerful tool and something that would be very useful for the Garda and the Criminal Assets Bureau. It is important the Criminal Assets Bureau is sufficiently resourced so the legislation is fully used to its potential. There is no point in the Oireachtas passing legislation which is then not used as effectively or fully as it can be.

The Minister mentioned in her speech that she wants to have a unified response from the Oireachtas and I hope and believe she will get it. However, she indicated there may be other proposals for reform in respect of proceeds of crime legislation and I welcome this. I note the Department has been conducting a review of proceeds of crime. This review needs to be expedited. It also needs to be expanded to hear opinions from others. A number of other proposals could be introduced in respect of legislation. We do not propose to table them by amendment now but they could be introduced to make the proceeds of crime legislation more effective. For instance, the Minister knows that at present a disposal order requires CAB to hold onto property for a period of seven years. I believe CAB would prefer if this were reduced to a lesser period. I know there are constitutional and legal concerns about reducing it too much below seven years but it is an issue we need to consider. I and, I am sure, Deputy O'Brien would be happy to engage with the Minister on this.

Another matter worth considering is that in Australia, which has similar legislation, the money seized is put into a confiscated assets account.

The money that goes into the confiscated assets account is then used exclusively in communities which have been affected by drug use and criminal activity so that the people in those communities can see that money is being put back into the community and that the money is a consequence of, and derives from, the proceeds of crime which have been seized. I know that there is a hesitancy or reluctance on the part of the all too powerful Department of Finance and other associated Departments to allow separate funds that go into the Exchequer to go into separate funds. However, we need to consider doing so in respect of this legislation because it would be to the benefit of those communities if the proceeds of crime seized could be used exclusively in order to educate children in those communities about drugs and build better projects and provide better services in those communities. All these factors are important in ensuring that the threat of drugs to our communities is properly and adequately dealt with. As I said, however, we will support this legislation.

See this speech in context