Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I too am very concerned by what I am seeing in St. John of God's. That is why an investigation is now under way by the HSE in respect of those payments. I have been clear, the HSE has been clear and, today, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has been clear in stating that if any payments have been made above and beyond the allowable level of payments, then those payments must be returned. We cannot have a situation whereby some people working in St. John of God's are earning salaries lower than that of the chief executive and are subject to the FEMPI Act while people at the very top are earning large salaries and are not subject to it.

That is not fair and is not in accordance with the rules. That investigation is ongoing.

It is not just about whether I can guarantee or I can be assured, it is about whether we have the structures in place to have a degree of certainty. I am not satisfied that we just have an internal HSE review as I want to bring in the external layer. I want independent external consultants to examine all section 38 bodies to ensure they are not just signing on the dotted line to indicate that they are in compliance, but that they are actually in compliance. That body of learning will inform whether we need to take more steps beyond what we are doing.

See this speech in context