Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat - bhíos chun a rá Leas-Cheann Comhairle - a Chathaoirligh. This is a very important debate because it is the first time in this House that we have had a constructive engagement from the Opposition with the Government on what has rightly been described as a national emergency. It is a forum where all of the parties of this House and none have come together under the chairmanship of Deputy John Curran. We met more than 40 different bodies who informed us of the needs as they saw them, and the solutions that they wanted. In fairness to the Chairman, there was very little political debate because we were trying to find solutions. The committee was a solution-driven one. That is what is important about what happened at our meetings.

There is also a changed Government and a changed Government policy. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has at all times facilitated and supported the committee and the debate. His Department has always been available to help, inform and advise in a professional way on what it thought should happen. I welcome the involvement of the Minister. As Deputy Ellis said, this Chamber is the right place to debate the report. We are all challenged by the crisis and we all have to find a solution. It is not just this Government that will be held to account but so too will Deputy Ellis and all of us if we fail in our duty of care to the tens of thousands of people who live in appalling conditions in great uncertainty and who want this Dáil to deliver.

The committee met when there was no active Dáil at the time. Families came to me and were able to say what I and others had said in the committee because the people were interested, listening and watching. That was the first real sign in many years of democracy at work, progress and constructive engagement. I welcome the commitment of the Minister to deliver his action plan on time and that it will be put under forensic examination, not just by all of us here, but by the country and the people who are waiting on the housing list. The Minister and our Chairman have enunciated the points which remain important to the changes that have to happen.

I wish to throw my tuppence-worth in at this stage to make a point. I have done a little bit of work - not enough yet - on Freedom of Information Act documentation on the houses which were offered by NAMA to local authorities. Thousands of houses were offered and thousands were not taken up. Some of the documentation is amazing. More than 2,000 of these units were offered in 2012. That was the first time they were offered. Of the units offered at the time, 76% were apartments, mostly one or two-bedroom apartments which would have met the needs of thousands of families. Many of them were taken up and many were not. It seems to me that at the core of the refusal was not the condition of the houses. From what I am reading, it seems that NAMA offered to put the units into a proper state if they were not finely finished. It was not a question of the 10% or 20% target of social housing which some authorities wanted to adhere to. There was a refusal by local authorities throughout the country to go the extra mile to house their own families in their own communities in housing which was made available to them. That, to me, is a cynical exercise by local authorities which I do not accept.

I have a duty, as we all do, to investigate further. All the people we talk about who are sleeping rough in Dublin tonight could be in houses and apartments tonight if the councils had taken up those units. However, they did not. That is a fact. We need to look again at what happened there. These were houses which were under the control of NAMA but not owned by it. It offered the houses on long-term leases to local authorities. If the percentages went up, in many cases, the local authorities said they were not taking them. I believe that needs to be addressed again. My colleague in opposition, Deputy Mary Butler, from the wonderful County Waterford, and I had a chat about it. We said that many of the houses that were not taken up are now occupied by people on housing assistance payment, HAP, or rent allowance. The whole thing just does not make sense. Houses which the local authorities turned down, which their tenants could be in for the long term, are now being rented to people who are on the housing list and at a much-increased cost, which is the other point we made. There are issues to be addressed here.

I wish to address the question of the delivery of this programme by the Government. I am not critical at all of anything that has happened so far. The only thing I wish to be critical of is the fact the Committee on Housing and Homelessness, as originally set up, is not continuing. It should continue in parallel with the new committee. It may sound like a plea of wanting us all back. However, I believe we have the greatest expertise collectively. The committee we are on now is much smaller. We are probably going to meet on the housing issue maybe once a fortnight or once every three weeks. It has not been decided yet. We should invite in all the members of the original Committee on Housing and Homelessness - each and every one of them - to demand, see, view and put under the microscope the programme for Government on the action plan for housing and to look at it regularly. The energy we all put into that committee should continue. The best way to do it is to bring everybody on board. When the Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government meets, we should expand the membership for that. I do not see why we should not do that. It is worth considering and would make a lot of sense.

I know my time is short. I wish to say a few things about returning emigrants. I welcome that many of our emigrants are coming home. Unfortunately, many who are coming home had properties they sold. As an example, Johnny Murphy lost his job. He had to sell his house. He emigrated with his wife or partner and family. Now they want to come back. One of the problems they face is the deposit they must put down to get a mortgage when they return. I have some clients, not too many, but some, who cannot put the 20% deposit together. They are being damned because they were forced to leave the country. They do not have the 20% deposit. They have a 10% deposit. We need to look at each of these cases. I welcome what the Minister has said. We need to look at this for the returning emigrants who did not leave the country because they wanted to and who are in a position to afford a house and have the 10%. They want to buy but cannot. The Central Bank requirements need to be addressed in that case.

I also think that we need to look again at first-time buyers. I have first-time buyers coming to me who have the capacity to pay the loan but have not got the 10%. They have a problem. I know the Minister is aware. Part of the submission of the Construction Industry Federation detailed a help-to-buy scheme. I believe that is going to be very important. Many people want to house themselves but they are caught. It is a shame they have to rent in the private sector and do not have the certainty. They have the certainty of knowing they can pay back the loan and the certainty of knowing they will never be able to get it because they cannot bridge that gap. That is very important.

I have to leave and I will not be able to stay for the debate because I have a clinic - believe it or not - that I have to do. I know it is a bit late. Having this debate is important, but having it at this time is far too late in the evening. This deserved a prime slot during the day during which other Members could participate and listen. It is worth it. It is the most important and urgent issue before the Government and the country. This Oireachtas and the Dáil is dealing with it in a right and proper format and in an effective and efficient way. It is great that we are all able to work together. I have no doubt about, and accept totally, the integrity of the Minister in his commitment. I reassure Deputy Ellis that I hope he will eat his words when the houses and the plan are in place.

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