Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

First, I thank Deputies Mick Wallace and Clare Daly for keeping this issue as a topic of discussion inside and outside this House. I am quite sure there are a lot of people who would rather that we were not talking about it and that we were talking about other things, but I sincerely thank the Deputies. I recognise their sincere intent in doing this. I hope the same respect would be afforded back to us in so far as our sincere intent to deal with it is as genuine as theirs.

I am very glad the Minister has made the comments he has to Amanda Mellet. He is right that it is not an isolated incident. One would have to travel far and wide to find somebody from this House who does not either know somebody directly or indirectly who has had to make that awful decision to terminate a pregnancy when they have been given the horrible diagnosis that their baby will not live outside the womb. Anybody who knows someone who has gone through that journey and who has had the most humiliating experience of bringing back their baby in a box in the boot of their car, of bringing the child home to be waked, of being told the child could not be baptised because he or she was dead and of not be able to bury the child properly in the Catholic church will know of the distress and trauma involved. It is not only the experience itself because this hangs over them for weeks, months and, in some cases, years thereafter. One could not but want to fix the situation, which I personally believe is intolerable.

I would like to very clearly state in this House that I would like to see a referendum to repeal the eighth amendment and I know exactly how I will be voting.

It is only and simply for the reason of fatal foetal abnormalities and how we treat parents, in particular mothers - no offence to fathers - who have to carry the babies. When we listen to some of the stories directly from the parents involved, I cannot understand how we would not want to deal with this issue.

The time a Bill was before the House previously, when it was brought forward by Deputy Clare Daly, I was in the position of only hearing that the Attorney General had stated the Bill was unconstitutional but not knowing exactly why. I am now in the very fortunate position where I sit at a table at which I hear directly what she has to say. Even if I did not want to believe her, the arguments are so compelling they cause me to think that even if we were to pass the Bill, we would spend years fighting in the courts of the land and it would not change a single thing for the women of Ireland who find themselves in this position.

For me - much and all as I appreciate and respect the principle of the Bill - I will oppose it on the basis that I will pursue the option put before the House through the programme for the Government to establish a citizens' assembly. I cannot tell the House how pleased I was when I heard the Taoiseach state he would bring it forward from the first anticipated meeting in November to an earlier date. There is absolutely no reason, as the Minister said, this issue cannot be dealt with in a relatively short space of time, having given the citizens' assembly and our representatives on it all of the expert advice they need to come to a decision to be brought back to the House. I would love to see this happen before Christmas because there is no reason the Oireachtas committee cannot consider its judgment and opinions early next year. Let us, once and for all, have legislation in the House which suggests we can repeal the eighth amendment but let us very clearly know what we will put in its place to give comfort to the people who would vote against repeal of the eighth amendment today because we do not know what would be put in its place. I have stated this many times and people have replied that we are legislators, that this is the citizens' assembly and we should just get on with it. I do not know, except in instances of fatal foetal formalities, with what I would replace it for women who have found themselves in the unfortunate position of being raped, or pregnant through incest. I do not yet how to deal with this. I might be criticised for saying this because I should know, but I need this space to be able to hear from the citizens of Ireland what they would like to see happen in various situations because it is our country.

I am much older than the Minister, Deputy Simon Harris, but I was only a young one on the first two occasions we had a chance to vote on this issue. In a reasonable and respectful society we should want to change the situation which is intolerable for parents whose children have been diagnosed with fatal foetal formalities, but I want to do something real and meaningful which can transpire in a couple of months, as opposed to passing legislation which we expect to be tested in the Supreme Court. I would rather get it right the first time and I would rather do it in the House. That is why I will oppose the Bill. It does not mean that I oppose the principle and it certainly does not mean that I have lost any support for families and parents who have received or will receive a diagnosis. I want to see the period of time during which parents must travel to Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham or Wales on a weekly basis to be as short as possible. That is why I will vote against the Bill, but I will ensure the citizens' assembly is established as soon as we can.

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