Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I accept a cross-government approach is needed to this and, as I pointed out earlier - the Deputy agreed with me - it is not all about welfare payments and transfers. We compare well with other countries when it comes to welfare payments and transfers but where we are doing poorly is in the area of services. Many people on low income have to pay for services they would get free in other countries. In addition, a good well paid job is better than any social transfer and, therefore, one has to take into account all those factors.

It is my intention to have a new national anti-poverty strategy to replace the one that has been extended to 2017.

There is a programme for Government commitment regarding plans for poverty proofing of budgets and I will press it with my colleagues, but we will probably not necessarily agree on how it should be done. Increasing pensions, for example, benefits one decile the least, which comprises the poorest people in the country. There are many perversities that people would not necessarily appreciate. The Deputy probably does but many other people do not. One way to do nothing for the poorest 10% in the country, for example, is to increase pensions, but I would like to do so. Some people believe a tax cut is a transfer to people who are in work or who are middle class and better off. My view is a tax cut is just giving people back their own money and it should not be included in these calculations.

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