Eoghan Murphy (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies who have introduced the motion for discussion and made contributions to the debate. These are serious matters that require informed discussion. The Taoiseach best summarised our position in this House recently when he said "allegations, rumours and speculation [are] not the basis for setting up a commission of investigation." This position is reflected in Fianna Fail’s amendment. It is clear from this debate that some Deputies prefer to remain in the realm of "rumours and speculation". It is not unreasonable for us to expect that those proposing a motion in this House would outline specific concerns appropriate to a commission of investigation and thereby allow the House to consider such concerns. Regrettably, no specific concerns appropriate to a commission of investigation have been articulated for consideration by the House. Specific issues appropriate to a commission of investigation may arise or remain following the completion of the various investigations under way. It is comforting to see the reasoned and measured approach echoed in each of the proposed amendments. We must allow ongoing investigations the time and space to complete their work.

It is in all of our interests that NAMA has secured and continues to secure the best return possible for the Irish taxpayer. I remind Deputies that this has happened because the Oireachtas had the foresight to provide for appropriate legislative oversight when it framed the National Asset Management Agency Act 2009. An independent board of directors was put in place to take commercial decisions to secure the maximum return to the State, as required under section 10 of the 2009 Act. The Minister, Deputy Michael Noonan, and I have full confidence in the chairman and board of NAMA. They, in turn, are confident that maximum value was secured in the Project Eagle sales process. NAMA's activities are fully audited. The Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General must be given the appropriate time and space to complete its section 9 value for money review of Project Eagle properly and in accordance with due process.

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Oireachtas oversight was specifically set out in the NAMA Act. The Committee of Public Accounts must be allowed the opportunity to consider the Comptroller and Auditor General’s value for money review. Following recent statements by the Committee of Public Accounts Chairman, whom I congratulate on his appointment, I have no doubt the committee will exercise its oversight and meet the NAMA chair and chief executive to discuss this report, as they have done many times in the past.

There has been much inflammatory rhetoric which, like many times before, has irresponsibly been thrown around in full knowledge that it conflates issues. For clarity, I will address some of the matters raised this evening and previously. The arrest of individuals connected to Project Eagle is extremely concerning. However, the National Crime Agency, NCA, is pursuing a criminal investigation and is the appropriate authority to pursue such charges in Northern Ireland. To date, these arrests have not resulted in charges or in any confirmation of wrongdoing by any person. In addition, NAMA advises that the NCA has confirmed that no aspect of the agency’s activities are under investigation. We must remember that we are not, nor should we be, privy to the NCA’s line of questioning or how it intends to progress its investigation. Equally, we should not prejudge its investigation.

Should a criminal investigation be warranted in this jurisdiction, it is a matter for the Garda. Those who believe they have information in this regard should alert the Garda.

Separately, it is regrettable some Members have conflated separate incidents referring to four arrests. The Deputy is well aware that it was NAMA which lodged separate complaints to the Garda which led to two cases regarding the inappropriate disclosure of information being pursued by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation. These cases are in no way related to Project Eagle and the recent arrests in Northern Ireland.

It is also incorrect to hark back to the original par value of the loan book when assessing the return NAMA secured on Project Eagle, or any other sales process. Poor lending practices by the banks and the resulting financial crisis meant that borrowers would never be in a position to repay the full amount. The majority of this loss was recognised upon the acquisition of the loans by NAMA from the banks, as set out by this House in legislation. The loss ultimately suffered on this portfolio is not a loss caused by the sale of the loans but a loss caused by poor underwriting by the banks at the time these loans were granted and by significant falls in the value of property on which these loans were secured. The NAMA board believes it did achieve best value for the portfolio and is best positioned to make that judgment. Assertions that NAMA should have pulled the transaction are purely speculative and are not based on informed analysis.

The NAMA chairman has indicated that the NAMA board is satisfied that the process delivered the best possible return that could have been achieved and is satisfied with the integrity of the sales process. The NAMA board carefully considered the situation at the time PIMCO disclosed the fee arrangement with a former Northern Ireland Advisory Committee, NIAC, member and sought appropriate advice from its appointed loan sale advisers, Lazard. Following the withdrawal of PIMCO, the board made a considered and deliberate decision to proceed, comfortable that sufficient competitive tension remained in the sale process.

Suggestions the Minister should have interfered with NAMA’s commercial decisions fundamentally misunderstands both NAMA’s independent mandate and the role of the Minister for Finance. Under section 14(1) of the NAMA Act 2009 the Minister “may give a direction in writing to NAMA concerning the achievement of the purposes of this Act”. There is nothing to suggest NAMA was not operating within its mandate or in line with the purposes of Act by proceeding with the sale process. In fact, halting the sale process may have had the opposite effect, damaging Ireland’s hard-earned reputation as a credible, open and transparent market.

The suggestion to halt NAMA’s work immediately is completely inappropriate. NAMA continues to progress its mandate to maximise the return to the State, as evidenced in its 2015 annual report and accounts, and should not be impeded in its continuing efforts to do so. It is in everyone’s interest that NAMA continues to eliminate the State’s contingent liability and, potentially, return a profit of up to €2.3 billion. We should also not forget that NAMA’s commercial mandate involves the intention to facilitate the delivery of much-needed residential units and grade A office space in the Dublin docklands. We can ill-afford to jeopardise this meaningful contribution by acquiescing to vague assertions that something is not right.

For all these reasons, it would be inappropriate to establish a commission of investigation now. I again thank the Deputies for bringing forward their motion for discussion this evening and for their participation in this debate. I believe it is clear that a commission of investigation into any matter should not be entered into without due consideration of what specific concerns that commission could usefully investigate. The Minister is more than willing to discuss fully specific concerns which this House believes are appropriate for a commission of investigation. Fianna Fail’s amendment to the motion suggests that a commission of investigation should be pursued if warranted, following the completion of ongoing investigations. I agree that if specific concerns arise following the conclusion of other investigations that would require a commission of investigation to investigate them, then the Dáil should consider such a course of action at that time. In that regard, the Government’s amendment proposes that we must allow the appropriate authorities the time and space necessary to complete their investigations. The Government will, of course, continue to monitor developments in the interim.

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