Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

It goes on to say:

As such, Committee members should be aware that it is a criminal offence for a person who is in possession of “inside information” to:(a) deal or try to deal the financial instruments concerned or their related derivative instruments;

(b) disclose inside information to any other person; or

(c) recommend or induce another person to deal in such financial instrument.

We do not have a very good record of holding banks to account. Not only did we rescue them when they collapsed, but we have not been able to tell them what to do since. If I had a site today that I owned fully and I had planning permission for 30 houses on it, I would not get money - and neither would anyone of my size, for that matter - to build on the site. The pillar banks are not lending, and that is one of the problems we have in the delivery of housing.

The Government argues, and I have often heard it argued here, that the State should not be interfering with private businesses such as banks. First of all, I do not agree with that and, second, AIB is State-owned. The idea that a state has no control over or does not hold to account private institutions that work within that state does not stack up. It really does not make any sense.

I will not name the individuals again, but the gentlemen I referred to both worked for NAMA. Is anyone even remotely concerned about the fact that they have been arrested by the National Crime Agency? The notion that these guys were only involved on the sale side has just been blown out of the water. The National Crime Agency is not investigating the sale side; it is looking at the purchase side of Project Eagle.

We have the same attitude to NAMA as we have to the banks. It is as if we do not want to know, and they can do what they like. This is incredible. I guarantee that, in time, this is going to fall down around their ears. I have not said anything close to the full amount of information as we have around this whole area because I have been short of paper proof sometimes. I can tell the Minister of State, however, that the way NAMA operated left a lot to be desired, and it will be proven in time. The fact that it has nothing to say about the fact that the two gentlemen were arrested last week is mind-boggling. Why is the Government not asking them to come to the House and explain why this happened? Am I missing something? It just does not stack up. I do not know what way the Minister of State sees it. Over the last year, I have brought NAMA up eight times on Leaders' Questions and, every time, NAMA spokespersons came out and contradicted most of what I said. They said I was not being accurate, even thought I was. Most of what I said has been borne out slowly. This time they have nothing to say, which is very interesting. How can they defend the role that these two gentlemen played in this transaction?

Last autumn, I asked NAMA how it could still engage with Cerberus on Project Arrow, given the fact that it is part of a criminal investigation in the North by the National Crime Agency and is being investigated in America by the Securities and Exchange Commission. How can it still deal with that organisation? Does the Minister of State know what NAMA said back to me? "As far as we are concerned, we have no evidence that Cerberus are being investigated under any criminal charges."

Last week, when the National Crime Agency arrested our two friends, it said this was part of a fraud investigation. The last time I checked, a fraud investigation has a strong connection to criminal activity. Am I right?

I am getting my interpretations or words wrong if that is not true. It said that this is a fraud investigation. What will the Irish Government do about it? Is it going to wait? Nobody might be charged for 12 months and if it was in the South, it could be even 18 months. Are we going to stand idly by and wait that length of time? I am not saying that we shoot the two individuals but it is about time we checked things out. Has it bothered the Government that enforcement against Northern Ireland borrowers who were in Project Eagle was less than 30% of the enforcement against Republic of Ireland borrowers? How is it that Republic of Ireland based borrowers appear to have been far more aggressively treated than those in Northern Ireland?

I am sure most Members saw the last "Spotlight" programme in which Frank Cushnahan said to Mr. Miskelly that only for Ronnie the lights would have been put out. Does it not bother anybody that he said that? Maybe he made it up. I doubt it but maybe he did. I am not saying it is a fact, even though I have good reason to believe it is. However, why do we not investigate it? Do we not want to know exactly what happened? This speculation surrounding the work of NAMA will not go away. There will be speculation about how NAMA has operated until kingdom come unless it is investigated. NAMA does not have to be accountable for what it does. Its representatives were able to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts in July and October 2015 and say what they wished. That is no disrespect to any member of that committee. I am not saying that if I had been a member of it I would have been able to hold them to account. I would not. It is not a body that can hold them to account. They can say what they wish and we cannot prove them wrong unless we hold an investigation. To date, however, we have not wished to conduct one. Will that remain the case?

During his employment at NAMA as head of asset recovery, how many connections did Mr. Hanna approve enforcement against? If it has been found that he has not behaved quite how he should have, it has huge repercussions for all of the transactions in which he was involved with NAMA. It is important that we look at this sooner rather than later. If Cerberus is found to have behaved badly in Project Eagle, what will happen to all of the deals Cerberus has done in the South? It has bought more than €20 billion par value worth of assets on the island of Ireland. There is huge activity with it either looking for its money, selling on assets, trying to sell loans and so forth. Will all of this stack up? Will it unravel if Cerberus is found to have behaved badly? I believe it will. We will save ourselves a great deal of hassle by starting early rather than late. Kicking this can down the road will cost the State a lot of money. I suggest that we establish a commission of investigation sooner rather than later. The Government should initiate it and should not wait until more pegs fall and it all becomes overbearing. Why not start now and do the State a favour? If this is allowed to drag on until somebody is charged, many things will happen in the meantime. NAMA is already considering selling Project Ruby, Project Emerald and Project Abbey. If Cerberus buys more of these, the problem will be amplified if it is found that it has not behaved well.

Given the way everybody was carrying on, it was as if Cerberus was always going to get away with this and that NAMA was always going to get away with whatever it did and would never be held to account.

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