Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Coppinger is incorrect when she states we do not like to see this matter raised. It has been raised on many occasions. We have set out a clear process in the programme for Government committing that a citizens' assembly should examine the question of the eighth amendment and other issues. Following the citizens' convention, which brought forward the proposition that there should be a referendum on dealing with the question of marriage equality, the process by which it came about was very clear and strategic and it brought about its own results.

It is not true to say that it is only, unfortunately, women who have to contend with crisis pregnancies who have an interest in this.

This is about the people of the country having an interest in matters of life and death, and the Deputy is well aware that the Constitution belongs to the people, is created by the people, voted on or amended by the people and changed by the people. Nor is it true for her to say that politicians here do not have a say on this. When the citizens' assembly makes its recommendations and when they go through the Oireachtas committee and the expert group, it is the politicians here who will have to make a decision as to whether we proceed to have a referendum and what the nature of that referendum might be. I have already said from our perspective that if and when that arises, it will be the opportunity for Members to vote according to their conscience and vote freely in whatever way they wish to vote on the question to be put before them. It is therefore not true for the Deputy to say that the elected representatives of all parties and none here do not have a say on this because it cannot be put before the people, if a referendum is to be held, without a Bill to hold a referendum, and people here must vote on that.

The Deputy is well aware that in 1983, the eighth amendment introduced the section in article 40.3 dealing with the question of "the unborn". There were a number of court cases concerning the interpretation of that amendment and of the provision of information and referral to abortion services. We had several referenda but the people decided what to put in the Constitution. With the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill a number of years ago, the Government gave legislative effect to what the Supreme Court interpreted the Constitution to mean, and that was not without its inherent difficulties either. It is too facile to say we must have a referendum because one cannot change and amend the Constitution without the approval of the people, and one therefore must know what it is that one wants to do. Yes, the question of fatal foetal abnormalities has arisen, and yes, the question of incest and rape has arisen, and these are very traumatic, sensitive, personalised cases for people. The Constitution is what it is, and that is the reason why a citizens' assembly should reflect on the eighth amendment.

The method of adoption of a citizens' assembly will have to take into account gender, location, age, geography and so on and would need to be chaired by a very competent person. All of that can be arranged and made available through the commissioning of a polling company, as happened in the previous citizens' assembly, which was fair, regionalised, gender-balanced and age-balanced in the way it went about its business. That will all be put in place within six months, as committed to in the programme for Government, but it is not as simple as calling for a referendum to be held. It is much more profound than that.

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