Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank everyone for their contributions on this very important matter. As I said in my statement yesterday, we need look no further than the bloody recent events in north city Dublin to understand just how important is the work of the Garda Síochána. It is precisely because the service the Garda provides is so vital, so important, that it must be delivered to the very highest standards. The O’Higgins report, unfortunately, details numerous occasions, as Deputy Ó Caoláin and others have stated, when that did not happen, and it highlights areas where improvements have to be made.  They have been well rehearsed in this House yesterday and again today and I do not have enough time to go over them all of them in detail now, but I did acknowledge those issues during my contribution yesterday.

I wish to is address specifically some of the points that have been raised during the course of the debate here yesterday and today. It is important that I deal with comments in the debate about allegations around what took place at a meeting between gardaí in Mullingar.  I recognise the concerns around these allegations, and I said that yesterday.  As has been stated, the Commissioner has asked me to refer that to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and I have declared my intention to do so. In particular, the question was asked as to why this is only being referred to GSOC now.

We should be very careful about regarding as established fact - I heard Deputy O'Callaghan say this on "Morning Ireland" and I welcome his comments in relation to it this morning - something that is reported to have happened at the commission which is not referred to in Mr. Justice O'Higgins's report. As I have explained to the House before, the proceedings before the commission were by law confidential, so I am not in a position, and nor is anyone else in this House, to confirm or deny reports that have come into the public domain about parts of the proceedings because I properly have no knowledge of them. Even if those facts were established, what is being suggested is that the Garda Commissioner should, while the commission was still going on, have launched her own investigation into certain matters that were before the commission before Mr. Justice O'Higgins made his findings about the matter.

 It is easy to see how that would have been portrayed as a gross interference with the work of the commission. Now that the commission has reported, I do not believe that anyone would be satisfied if the Garda Commissioner simply launched her own investigation into the matter. What we are left with is that, whatever the reality of what actually happened, there is understandable public concern at allegations that members of An Garda Síochána may have fabricated an account of a meeting to cause damage to a colleague, and that is now rightly being referred to GSOC.  That is the appropriate forum to deal properly and fairly with this matter.

It is a great pity that, within a couple of hours of my announcing that yesterday, a Deputy saw fit to put the purported names of persons involved in that meeting on the record of the House. It is hard to reconcile the passion with which some Deputies say they are pursuing justice with a blatant disregard for the rights of others. To campaign under the slogan "justice for all" rings very hollow when set against using this Chamber in this way. Of course, it makes it all the more difficult to discuss the issue, both inside and outside this House, where anything we say is now going to be taken as a reference to two people who also have basic human rights to their good names and have a right to defend themselves. It is important that I make that point here today.

A number of Deputies raised the treatment of whistleblowers and the specific cases of other Garda members who have made allegations. Any dispassionate reading of the O'Higgins report and an objective assessment of the events of the past couple of years demonstrate two things: the dangers of rushing to judgment and the need to have fair, independent and objective procedures in place for dealing with allegations of wrongdoing within An Garda Síochána. We should all face up to the fact that my predecessor was excoriated across the floor of this House about matters which some considerable time later he was found to have dealt with properly. Whatever passion Members of this House might have in pursuing what they believe to be great wrongs, we would all do well to reflect that righting the wrongs done to some by doing wrong to others is not what justice is about.

I do not believe the floor of this House is where the rights and wrongs of particular allegations can be settled. Our obligation as legislators is to ensure we have in place appropriate arrangements to deal with these difficult and complex matters.

Now we have new protected powers and we have increased the powers of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission as well. If it is shown that these processes are not adequate to deal with particular cases that have arisen, then of course I am quite prepared to look at whatever other measures I might properly take to address any concerns. What I cannot do, however, is seek to set aside the procedures we, as legislators, have enshrined in law to deal with these matters. Deputies should appreciate that while certain procedures are ongoing, I am simply not in a position to respond on the floor of the House to particular details which they see fit to disclose. After all, such details relate to protected disclosures, in respect of which there is a solemn obligation on me to respect people's right to confidentiality.

Yesterday, I referred to the sensitivities that arise around whistleblowing and the need to protect persons making allegations, but also the need to respect the rights of those against whom the allegations have been made. Deputy O'Callaghan made the same point this morning. This balance is the same balance that sits at the heart of our justice system. We cannot wish it away, nor should we.

I referred to the need for cultural change as well. In some ways that is as important or even more important than having robust procedures in place. Ultimately, any organisation is no more or less than its people and their attitudes, behaviours and the way they treat others. There will be occasions when whistleblowers are found to be right and occasions when they are found to be wrong. We can see findings of both in the O'Higgins report. The key thing is that whistleblowers are protected and treated with respect. That element takes cultural change as well as changes in policy and law.

A number of issues relating to how victims, in particular, female victims, were dealt with are covered in the O'Higgins report as well as the issues that arise in that regard in terms of Garda training. That is being prioritised by the Garda Commissioner at present.

A range of other points were made but I do not have the time to respond to them in detail. Since I am out of time I regret that I cannot respond to more of the points made. However, I assure the House that my focus now is on the failings that were identified in respect of victims, the treatment of whistleblowers, and ensuring the improvements we need to see in An Garda Síochána are carried through.

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