Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I think we need to look at the structure of the way we do questions here. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his intervention.

I agree with Deputy Martin that the growth of populism has created significant challenges for democracy in all its forms in many countries. I see that reflected in the arguments around the European Council table. We will strongly defend the right of Ukraine to its sovereignty and have done so at every opportunity. We will equally support and stand by the sovereignty claims of neighbouring countries. Many of these, as Deputy Martin is aware, are under pressure for a variety of reasons, particularly since the annexation of Crimea by President Putin.

I will look at the question of the endowment for democracy. I am not sure of the reasons for the decision that was made here. Ireland is and will continue to be very supportive of Greece. I have spoken with the Greek Prime Minister, Mr. Tsipras, on every occasion at the European Council meetings. Obviously we have come through a pretty torrid time ourselves. I am glad that an agreement was reached at the ECOFIN meeting in respect of Greece. The Greek people face a challenge for the next 20 years, but at least they are now beginning to move in the right direction and pay their way.

Deputy Martin mentioned human rights in Turkey. It has been raised by me and other leaders at the European Council meeting in the presence of the former Turkish Prime Minister when he attended that Council. The central point of the argument was that the core of this problem is in Syria with the Assad regime. As a result of that and the war that is going on there, we have had this massive disruption into southern Lebanon, Turkey and across the Mediterranean. That is the cause of it all. When one considers the different forces globally, Russia and Iran are supportive of the Assad regime, while the United States and Europe support the opposition. The difficulty is compounded when leaders say that 200,000 people have arrived on their shores in a short time and want to move through to Germany.

The main intention of all those people was to move to Germany. As has been pointed out, many of them are professionals moving with their families across different countries. I understand that 10,000 children have gone missing. What is happening in Calais is appalling. We are not part of the Schengen area, though we voluntarily made our contribution both for resettlement and relocation. They set up the so-called hot spots in Greece and Italy, but when people arrived there they tended to leave immediately with the intention of getting to Germany. That is one of the reasons only a very small number of people were able to be approved to come here. I will get the figures as to where we are on that schedule. As regards the difference between resettlement and relocation, and the 4,000 we said we would take, I will provide Deputies with more accurate information in that respect.

The real argument at the European Council was because of the endless flood of people coming from Turkey, in particular, due to its proximity to Greece. Be they from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria or elsewhere, these people have paid large amounts of money to get on inflatable rafts. It is fine until one hears the Prime Minister saying that they are loaded onto these boats and as soon as they are out on the sea and the first ship appears, in many cases the inflatables are knifed and sunk so they end up in the water and have to be rescued. That is why there is a NATO operation under way off Turkey. It has been successful to an extent but not in the way it should be.

The reason for the European deal with Turkey in the first place was because they wanted to focus on dealing with people smugglers.

One can deal with them in an effective way by patrolling offshore while being able to return people entering Europe illegally to where they came from, whereas others who have arrived in Turkey and are based in camps but who wish to be relocated to a European country have whatever the categorisation might be to say they want to be legitimately recognised as refugees or asylum seekers and they want to live and go to Europe. Those who have paid money to people smugglers and are sent across the short distance to the Greek islands do not have the same intent, whether they are in a camp in Turkey or wherever.

When the Turks came with their requirements for acceleration of the accession agreement, liberalisation of visas and a further €3 billion by the end of 2017, the money being paid by the EU was to go towards the provision of school, health, maternity and other facilities in the camps. That expenditure was to be supervised by the EU. In other words, it is not the case that a cheque has been paid into the Turkish exchequer, with everybody just leaving it at that.

Deputy Boyd Barrett made a point about the agreement in the context of the European Court of Human Rights. People were conscious of eliminating people smuggling, which is difficult to do. The vast majority of refugees intend to get to Germany. Chancellor Merkel made it perfectly clear that she wanted to accommodate as many as possible in Germany, but they had to go through other countries to get there. When Prime Minister Orbán put up the first fence in Hungary and others followed, with difficulties arising because of the sheer weight of numbers coming through Austria, this exemplified the point made by the Deputy about populism on the right wing in respect of the numbers of migrants. In 1939, when the Sudetenland was invaded, one ship with 800 or 900 refugees was sent to the US and turned back. Another was sent to Turkey and most of those on board drowned. The position here is appalling, but the central feature is the war in Syria. The vast majority of Syrian people who have been interviewed would love to go back to their own country. They are educated, intelligent, sophisticated people and they want to live their lives normally, but the bombing patterns by the opposition and so on have destroyed much of the country.

There will be no military action in respect of the LE Róisín. I have been clear on this. The Naval Service works in tandem with the Italian authorities and the function of the men and women on the ship is purely humanitarian - search and rescue. They follow in the wake of the other ships, which have rescued more than 8,000 people.

The Deputy is correct in respect of the numbers who have drowned. Many of them paid big money on the basis of trusting people that they would be brought to Europe for a better life, and that, obviously, did not turn out to be the case. Until the root cause of all this is addressed, there will not be a sense of permanent peace. I understand a couple of hundred thousand people on the shores of Libya want to cross into Europe as well but there is no plan at all for them. Many of them have travelled from Mali, Somalia and Eritrea up through the Horn of Africa. The Deputy referred to the 110,000 refugees who came to Ireland in 2007. Many of them were from EU member states and were entitled to come here under the freedom of movement principle, while some came from countries outside the Union.

The agreement between the Union and Turkey will not be suspended. It was carefully considered from a legal point of view as not being in contravention of the ECHR, to which the Deputy referred, because there are people on the Turkish mainland who have been there for quite a while and they want to legitimately seek their right to come to Europe, whereas others being sent across the short distance to the Greek islands were loaded onto boats by people smugglers and told they were out of there. While others have a longer term ambition of coming to Europe, the reason the agreement came about in the first place was to eliminate the so-called business model of people taking big money to smuggle refugees into Europe.

I referred earlier to the fact that issues of great importance domestically are not generally raised at Council meetings and, for that reason, the housing crisis here was not the subject of discussion formally at a meeting. However, the Deputy can take it that we have set up the Cabinet sub-committee. We have had two meetings and next week we will have a presentation from the Departments of Finance, to be followed by the Departments of Social Protection, Health and Transport, Tourism and Sport. We will have a comprehensive strategy with the facilities provided in law and through whatever are the requirements for the Minister for housing, planning and local government to deal with this. Supply is the key. I note the Deputy's point about the capital programme. It is extensive, covering many years, and will cost €42 billion, €27 billion of which will be provided by the State, with a review in 2017-18. The Government's greatest priority is to deal with the housing crisis. It is not satisfactory in many forms. Other member states have national problems that they would like to discuss at Council meetings as well but, generally, the agenda is focused on a more European level. We will deal with the issue here and report to the House on the progress we are making.

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