Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

-----by design or directly connected, but it was certainly an unfortunate timing of events. Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from that. Maybe the Minister's hand was forced by some of the selective leaking. If it was not, then I think it was a poor judgment on the Minister's behalf to see the report published and then to leave the State and not be available to make statements on it.

Everyone will recognise the difficult job that gardaí have. They work on the ground with limited resources and they are under immense pressure. They do deserve all of our support, and particularly support from their superiors and those tasked with ensuring that the organisation operates in an accountable manner.

I am disappointed by the delay in the Garda Commissioner's response to the public outcry surrounding the publication of leaked transcripts from the commission, which appeared in the Irish Examiner. She refused to address what was being circulated and widely discussed, and chose to hide behind a misinterpretation of the legislation underpinning the inquiry. Her lack of action and clarity was unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, that leads to questions concerning her credibility in making progress on the change agenda that arises from the report by Mr. Justice O'Higgins. Restoring public confidence in An Garda Síochána, which has to happen, must come from a leadership level. The fact that the Commissioner has been involved in some of this controversy in recent days and weeks is not helpful in ensuring that confidence will be forthcoming.

We also acknowledge the carefully crafted statement issued by the Commissioner earlier. Unfortunately, it failed again to provide the clarity necessary in respect of the direction she gave her legal counsel during the commission of investigation. This is not about going after Nóirín O'Sullivan or trying to get a head on a plate - far from it; this is about ensuring the most senior member of the force, the Garda Commissioner, who will be responsible for leading a culture change within the force has the confidence of the public, of us as legislators and, indeed, of rank and file gardaí. Clarity is needed regarding the issues that have arisen in recent days.

Depending on the legal opinion one listens to, some state the Commissioner is legally precluded from clarifying the reports within the transcripts while others say she is not. It is our belief that she can make a statement in respect of the advice given to her legal team as it was not evidence given before the commission. Certainly, evidence given before the commission could not be disclosed publicly and could not be discussed but legal opinion can be clarified. It was not given to the Commissioner as a private individual; it was given to her in her role and in her capacity as the Garda Commissioner. It is the Minister's job to hold the Commissioner to account. It is a straightforward request that she would speak to the Commissioner in this regard and ask exactly what legal advice was given. There is an onus and responsibility on the Minister considering Ms O'Sullivan was acting in her capacity as the Garda Commissioner and not just as an individual.

In her statement earlier, the Commissioner stated that "at no time was there any direction to her legal team to question or try to impugn the integrity of Sergeant McCabe" but we know her legal counsel has corrected the record. There was an allegation that he was to question the sergeant's integrity and that has been corrected to say that he should not have used that word and that he was to question the motivation and the credibility of Sergeant McCabe. It is not feasible to question people's motivation and, particularly, their credibility without questioning their integrity because by questioning their motivation and credibility, their integrity is also being questioned. Even if the word "integrity" was not used, that does not mean that is grand. It is not credible to suggest that Sergeant McCabe's motivations and credibility could be questioned in the absence of also questioning his honesty and that is at the core of what the transcripts state. Later in the Commissioner's statement, she suggests "it would not have been unreasonable or improper" for such an approach to be taken; that it is to say it would not have been unreasonable to question the credibility and motivation. It simply boils down to her stating, "I did not do it but even if I had, it would have been okay". It would not have been okay and it is not acceptable.

The Commissioner is playing with words. She first used the legislation as a shield to state that she could not clarify the issue and then when she issued a statement today, it was full of even more contradictions. That leaves the fundamental question of whether the Commissioner is the most appropriate person to oversee the changes and improvements in how whistleblowers are dealt with within the Garda. I do not believe she is. Will the Minister explain to us and, more important, to potential whistleblowers who may wish to come forward with malpractice allegations within the force how they could have full confidence in the Commissioner given everything that has transpired in recent days and, in particular, the treatment of previous whistleblowers?

I welcome the Commissioner's statement that she has met Transparency Ireland regarding how to deal with these issues in the future. That is correct and I also welcome the Minister's statement regarding the two gardaí who alleged that Sergeant McCabe stated to them that he was acting out of malice with a gripe against a senior officer. One would have to question if the sergeant did not have tape recordings to refute those allegations where we would be today. That is telling. The commission of investigation stated what was on the tape recordings did not tally with the allegations made by the two officers. One can only assume the reason they were not included in the final report is there was no foundation to them. If that is the case, serious questions must be asked. While it is correct that GSOC should investigate this, the Commissioner cannot have it both ways. She cannot say she fully accepts the findings of the commission and then, on the other hand, state that to dispel public disquiet in respect of the two members of the force who made those serious allegations, further investigation is needed.

It is important that the Government moves quickly to implement the commission's recommendations. I presume the resources needed to implement them will be forthcoming. I agree with Deputy Martin that the Policing Authority will not be the panacea to all our problems. While the legislation was welcome, we stated when it was going through the House that it was flawed in the sense that the Garda Commissioner still remains accountable to the Minister for Justice and Equality. While the Minister can request an investigation to the initiated against the Commissioner, the legislation falls short of giving that power to the authority. If it is to be truly independent, serious consideration needs to be given to amending the legislation. If we are to have this new culture of reform within the Garda, then it has to be ensured everything done within the force is fully transparent and accountable. We owe it to rank and file gardaí to ensure that happens because their morale is on the floor following the many reports into Garda misbehaviour such as the Barr tribunal, the Abbeylara, Rossport and Guerin reports and this commission of investigation.

It is essential we do everything possible to ensure morale within the force is enhanced but we must also ensure the officers themselves do not fall outside the law, are held to account and take responsibility for their actions. If we can work on that, part of which involves amending the Policing Authority legislation, we would be well on our way to doing that. I reiterate my own position and that of my party, which is that, unfortunately, given the serious nature of the allegations relating to Nóirín O'Sullivan and her handling of the legal advice, she is not the best person to bring about that culture change.

Therefore, we believe her position is untenable. We encourage the Minister to have a very stark conversation with the Commissioner and to ask her those questions and request that she clarify matters, which we believe she can, because it is important.

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