Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The purpose of the debate is to hear views from across the House, including from those who were not members of the reform sub-committee. I had the pleasure of serving on it and thank the Ceann Comhairle for his leadership and ensuring a diverse committee drawn from all political viewpoints and strands worked extremely well. It was one of the most efficient committees with which I had been involved in my time here since 2007. In particular, I thank the staff. We had ten detailed meetings at which redrafts of and changes to reports were required, as were minutes of meetings, etc. A great deal of research was carried out in the background and it was not simply based on OECD recommendations. A great deal of the work was done by our own staff in the Oireachtas research service who did a superb job.

I am glad that Members across the House are reading the proposals made, the reform does not stop here. The sub-committee will remain in place. There are some things we want to see changed and which will change and I hope we can bring forward a motion in the House next Tuesday. If it is passed, the relevant Standing Orders to effect the necessary changes will be brought forward on Wednesday. I was speaking at an event earlier on Dawson Street on Dáil reform, in particular, and will discuss Oireachtas reform in one minute. I note to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone, who was involved in the previous Seanad and changing how it worked, that there is scepticism, a great deal of it driven by the media, that anything we bring forward may not work or constitute window dressing. We need time for it to work. I put it to colleagues that if the Dáil does not change, it will not work - full stop. The Dáil will not work. In recent years, particularly under the last Government but also under the two before it, the Dáil became, in effect, a rubber stamp for Cabinet decisions. That is not the way Parliament should work, but that was the way it worked under Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Governments and others. We have a real opportunity to change this.

I listened to the comments and views of Deputy Thomas P. Broughan about how things would work. The reason the independent budgetary office will be set up on a statutory basis is not for it to become an animal of the Government but in order to establish it in law and provide it with independence and power under statute. It will be independent and not part of the Department of Finance. I will go back to that issue in one minute. It is exactly the same with the Office of the Parliamentary Legal Adviser, set up under law. I served as a backbencher in a previous Government and I am in opposition this time out. Even as a backbench Government Deputy, it was practically impossible to bring forward legislation. We did not have the advice required. Any Minister could, as happened this week with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, in the case of the Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016, assert that legislation might be unconstitutional. While that is fine and it is an opinion he holds, when the Opposition and other Members of the House have access to an independent parliamentary legal advice service which is staffed with properly qualified people and draftspeople, the quality of the legislation will stand up. It is a counterbalance to the Attorney General. This office is not being placed in conflict with the Attorney General but will provide resources for all Deputies, in particular Opposition Members, and access to independent parliamentary legal advice. That will be really important for those who wish to introduce legislation.

One of the areas the sub-committee considered involved Private Members' Bills. We will now have two Private Members' slots per week. The issue is what will happen to a Bill once it is allowed through on Second Stage. There is a set timeframe such that within ten weeks of a Bill being passed on Second Stage, it must be referred to a committee. Good legislation will not die on the vine and it will not be possible simply to park it. As there will be real opportunities for Opposition Members to have legislation passed by way of consensus, an onus will be placed on us to ensure legislation is robust and will stand up to legal scrutiny. Hence, there will be an absolute need for a parliamentary legal adviser. The scepticism to which I referred is recognised by those same people and, as such, this change needs to happen.

The sub-committee has tried with the assistance of Members across the House and people outside who made submissions to put forward a reform document that is actually doable. The OECD report referenced earlier showed that we had one of the poorest systems of parliamentary oversight of the budgetary process in the OECD. The introduction of a budget oversight committee is a positive step forward. It is not everything one would want immediately because that cannot be done, but it is a very good start. It will get to a stage where we will have budget committees such as those in the Czech Republic, France and Germany, to which Deputy Thomas P. Broughan referred. However, it will need to be serviced and have the resources of an independent budgetary office. That is crucial. Part of that will be when we try to deal with the new political reality of consensus politics and agree on things as best we can through that office. That will include smaller parties, those on the far left and those with very different views who may have espoused in the past a consequence-free opposition. Thankfully, we do not have far right parties. When Governments brought things in, these parties stated they were awful, jumped up and down, voted against them and went out and stated the Minister was wrong. It will now be incumbent on these Deputies to bring forward alternatives to the policies brought forward. They will have the opportunity to do so through the independent budgetary office to have their ideas and policies costed independently, verified and stress-tested. Should a party, including mine, or an Independent bring forward proposals which stack up, I would like to see the budget committee recommend their inclusion. The Minister for Finance will have to take this recommendation on board.

If parties or Independents who have always voted against budgets, come hell or high water, now have some policies reflected in a budget, it will be a step forward and they should consider supporting budgets and financial policy instead of constantly hurling from the ditch, of which people are sick. Although people are sick of big government and the Government controlling everything, they are also sick of those who do not propose realistic alternatives. The independent office will allow for this. I am not saying I am right about everything - God knows I am not - or that my political philosophy is the correct one, as people have different political philosophies, but this is an opportunity to become involved.

The report includes many good proposals. The additional responsibilities and powers for the Ceann Comhairle to be able to state a Minister has not answered a question and to direct him or her to answer it are important. This will apply to oral and written questions. Every quarter what is effectively a league table will be published. Two new Ministers of State - one will be a Minister of State shortly - are present. They are aware that their Departments will be called out if answers to parliamentary questions are not deemed sufficient.

We also considered how State agencies responded to Deputies' queries. I am only referring to Deputies because our remit covered the Dáil specifically. State agencies and Government bodies have a responsibility to reply in a comprehensive and timely way. We will continue to work on this issue to bring about a code or service-level agreement that will apply to some agencies but not others in order that Members who are elected by the people can receive the answers they need.

I listened with interest to Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett's opinions. It is welcome that, in broad terms, he saw many positives in the report. I commend all members of the committee and the Deputy's representative thereon, Deputy Paul Murphy, who did a great deal of good work. As was stated at the last committee meeting, if only the Dáil could work in the way the committee worked. Fifteen people from diverse political backgrounds, with diverse political views and approaches and with diverse personalities worked together well and in a respectful way. We have been able to produce the most significant proposals on Dáil reform in decades and there is no reason that attitude cannot be brought into the Chamber. It must be. Everyone to whom I have listened has stated he or she does not want to see more grandstanding or hear long-winded answers from Ministers, but neither does anyone want to hear long-winded contributions from Opposition Deputies or the person being played instead of the ball, of which there is far too much.

People in the media and the public will have to get used to the Government losing votes - big deal. It happens in other democracies. We will have the real business of the budget, the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill and so on to do. Some parties are not represented in the Chamber at the moment because we are coming towards the end of the debate, but I say to members of the Opposition and Government Members that the use of motions of no confidence as a tactical measure is something through which people see. One should never underestimate the intelligence of the electorate. We have a very sophisticated electorate. It voted for a changed Dáil, on the back of which there have been proposals that will ensure a more mature and collegial parliamentary system. This was one of the reasons, on the Monday straight after the general election while votes were still being counted in some constituencies, my party leader called for the establishment of a reform committee and for reforms to be implemented in advance of a Government's formation. Experience has shown us that Governments of all hues have only ever wanted reforms that suited them. As such, it was important that our work be done in advance of a Government's formation. These reforms are not perfect or complete, but they will provide a good basis on which we can work. If we do not change how we work, cynicism about how we operate in the Chamber which, in many instances, is well placed will grow, we will not be able to do our job and will enter into a cycle of having election after election in which the pressing issues of housing, homelessness and health, to name but a few, will not be tackled.

We must give these proposals a chance. They afford a real opportunity for all Deputies to champion their policy positions. It is incumbent on all Members to propose alternative policies. If people do not like something, great. That is what this is about. They can say they do not like it, but they should propose an alternative. They will now have the opportunity to do this by way of legislation. If these changes are made next week, as I believe they will be, an Independent, Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael Deputy knocking on doors at the next general election looking to be re-elected could campaign on the basis of passing this or that legislation because he or she will have the support of the new offices and facilities that are necessary to ensure a Bill will stack up. This could not be done previously. Since the foundation of the First Dáil, only six Bills that did not emanate from the Government have gone through all Stages in both Houses. This report presents an opportunity to ensure much more legislation emanates from across the House. Six Bills is a poor record.

Another issue is that of timeliness in debates and giving concise answers; theerfore, I will conclude before my time ends. I do not have a utopian view, as I am a realist, but we must give these proposals a try. I thank my colleagues on the committee.

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