Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill 2015. I accept and agree with everything the Minister has said in outlining the purpose of this legislation. I will not repeat much of what he has already put on the public record. Essentially, the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission has its own independent function but it needs a budget. It is being given a budget of €369 million for a three-year period. The Minister has explained why there are different figures for each year. I understand that an annual Estimate will come before the House each year as well. My main concern would be that we will have a debate on the annual Estimate and that is happening. It has been suggested that if we ever have fixed-term parliaments - I appreciate that this would require a constitutional amendment - we could establish a Houses of the Oireachtas Commission for the lifetime of each one. That is for another day. I do not think any Member here can oppose this legislation. I think everybody here is a democrat who supports the democratic institutions of the State. It is irrelevant who the individual Members of the Oireachtas are. It does not matter whether I am here, the Minister of State is here or anyone else is here. This Parliament is bigger than any one of its Members. For that reason, it is important that a proper Oireachtas system is in place.

I would like to like to make a few points. Having spoken to some senior staff during the week, I understand that the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission has lived well within its budget in recent times. I think the staff said during the week that there was an under-spend of €12 million, which is good. I am not sure if I picked it up correctly, so I will not tie myself to that figure. I thought I heard someone mention it. The cost of the banking inquiry is included in the cost of the budget for this year, so that is an achievement rather than these expensive trips down to tribunal land, which is a gravy train for barristers.

The Oireachtas must be judicious in how it does its business and must be careful with regard to legal fees. We should not let the Bar Council run procedures in this House or allow the Oireachtas be overly prescribed. This is the national Parliament and most of us are reasonably responsible people. Individuals often fly their own kites but not everything we do should be led, said and dictated by expensive barristers who would enjoy trips to the Four Courts on behalf of the Oireachtas on occasion. We must be judicious in defence of cases to protect the integrity of the Houses but if there is something that is beyond defence, we should accept that and not force it through the courts.

I am a member of the Oireachtas audit committee, which consists of four or five Deputies, some outsiders and a former Secretary General. I am happy to be a member of that committee and would like to mention some observations from my experience of it. I would like to see further development of the Oireachtas website, because many people have difficulty finding information on it. Perhaps we need more training or the system needs updating. In regard to staff, perhaps the Secretary General of the Oireachtas or whomever is in charge will take notice of this comment. From the Civil Service viewpoint, there seems to be a division within the minds of those who run the Oireachtas between House staff and Members' staff. I estimate that Members employ up to approximately 400 staff because most Deputies and Senators have two staff available to them and there are approximately 600 people employed by the Houses. Therefore, we have up to 1,000 members of staff.

I have noticed that training in the areas of health and safety, IT and courses updating skills is concentrated on House staff rather than Members' staff, although the latter are often the people in contact with the public on behalf of the Oireachtas. Often the only contact the staff of some Members who operate away from the Oireachtas have is when they encounter a problem with IT or broadband or when a printer is not working and they have to make contact looking for a technician to visit the constituency office to fix the problem. The permanent structure in the Houses does not involve itself sufficiently with the 400 staff who work for Members and there is division in people's minds regarding them. One day I asked how many people had attended a particular training course and was told a high percentage had attended. However, when I asked how many were House staff and how many Members' staff, I discovered that very few Members' staff had attended. There seems to be a mindset whereby House staff from Members' staff are perceived as being separate and I call for improvement in that area.

I am not pointing this out by way of criticism. We all see things from different viewpoints. When the Minister, Deputy Howlin, started working in the Oireachtas he probably shared a room with five others and they shared a phone and the services of a single secretary. Things have moved on and changed since.

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