Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I fully support the motion on behalf of the Technical Group and commend Deputies Murphy, Donnelly and Shortall on tabling it. It is very timely and should be given serious consideration and supported by all Members of the House. It was really brought home to us when we saw the "RTE Investigates" programme at 9.30 p.m. last night, which featured images which were shocking for many. While we have all heard stories about things that go on, and we may have received submissions, for me and many people in Donegal it was shocking to watch it taking place on camera. This brought home the message to people throughout the country that there are still practices going on which need to be weeded out and need to be ended. A number of councillors in Donegal have called for Councillor John O'Donnell to resign from Donegal County Council and I support these calls. He should resign to reinstate the good name of the council. It is important that this happens.

I am Chairman of the Select Committee on Members' Interests of Dáil Éireann. The committee was established under the Ethics in Public Office Act 1995 as part of the overall architecture of dealing with ethics in public office. Committee members have the role of investigating and examining how Members comply with the guidelines laid down in the Act. The committee's main role is to produce the guidelines every year and advise Members on how to fill in their declaration of interest when they make their returns in January. The programme last night showed how some people still do not fully understand what is required of them in the declaration of interest.

I support the proposal to establish an independent agency to investigate allegations of corruption in public life. Moreover, I would like to see the Select Committee on Members' Interests of Dáil Éireann and the Select Committee on Members' Interests of Seanad Éireann being subsumed into the new body because both are totally ineffective. One of the number of problems with how the Select Committee on Members' Interests of Dáil Éireann works is that its role is not clear in terms of what its members can and should be doing. Perhaps that is by design rather than accident. There is a sense of ticking the boxes in terms of having the committees in place in accordance with the legislation. However, nothing is really being done to implement the spirit of that legislation. Another issue is that although the committee has the power to initiate investigations and does not rely on members of the public to that end, it is not clear how it can actually do so in practice and whether, for example, it has the ability to carry out preliminary investigations to see if there is enough evidence to proceed into full investigative mode. In addition, the standard of evidence required to sustain a complaint is very difficult to ascertain. The Standards in Public Office Act provides that Members may be found guilty of a "specified act", which is extremely difficult to define. The only definition that has been put forward is that specified acts be defined according to monetary value. The guideline is that if the action in question does not have a value of more than €12,000, it is not a specified act. It is very difficult to define that.

The problem, in short, is that while we appear to have the architecture in place to investigate corruption in public life, we do not have anything that can work effectively in practice. The Standards in Public Office Commission, for example, has been trying for ten years to have its powers and investigative role enhanced. Its pleas have fallen on deaf ears within successive Governments. The current Government set itself up as being determined to deal with these issues but, like its predecessors, it has not done so. The Select Committee on Members' Interests of Dáil Éireann and the Select Committee on Members' Interests of Seanad Éireann should be dissolved and subsumed into the anti-corruption agency proposed to be established in this motion. It would send a very important message if the Government were to support the motion tomorrow, 9 December, which is UN International Anti-Corruption Day.

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