David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am very pleased to be able to speak to this very important legislation. I commend the Minister on bringing it forward and I wish it well. It strengthens the bail laws and introduces the possibility of consecutive sentencing, which I hope will act as a deterrent to committing crime. One of the biggest deterrents to crime is the knowledge that somebody will get caught and for this we need a number of measures.

As other speakers have said, we need mobile gardaí out on the beat on the streets. We also need intelligence.

In the past while, the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality has heard from the Garda Commissioner and representatives of Muintir na Tíre and the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, making presentations on all this. A number of issues overlapped in their contributions. Prevention is very important and Muintir na Tíre has a community visitation scheme that we should support as much as possible in order that people can call around to houses in urban and especially rural areas where people feel isolated. People are trained by the Garda and they call around to neighbours to help determine what is required to make their places safer. Community alert is important and the text messaging system should be supported as it is very useful. With the system, text messages are sent by the Garda and people in order that people can be forewarned of somebody being in an area. Gardaí may also receive intelligence in that way.

I have heard people saying they will not report crime as there is no point, but both Muintir na Tíre, the IFA and the Garda have argued that this is not wise and that every crime should be reported because gardaí use such intelligence and information. Every attempted crime or suspicious movement should be reported as it all feeds into the general intelligence and information used by gardaí to track people who commit crime and build a profile. I ask people to report everything as it is very important that they do so.

Closed-circuit television, CCTV, is being rolled out in many areas and particularly towns. I know more is happening in this area and I encourage more of this to happen. The IFA told us about www.theftstop.ieand that where signs have been erected throughout the country indicating the use of TheftStop, nothing was stolen from those farms. The material and equipment is marked and thieves know that if they take it and it is found, it can be traced back to the original owners. There is another technology called forensic marking, which is a liquid that can be sprayed or painted on equipment. It is invisible but can be picked up with ultraviolet light and each farm can have a specific type of liquid that can be traced to the farm. Gardaí have told us that much equipment has been recovered but they do not know who owns it. We need to ensure people mark and photograph their possessions in order that gardaí can return them if they are recovered. That is very important. The use of alarms, locks, monitors and pendants for older people should be encouraged and I ask the Minister to look at that.

There is a sociological and psychological aspect to this as well related to fear of crime. People in some areas tell us that the fear of crime is more corrosive and damaging than the crime itself. I caution against people boosting a fear of crime for all kinds of reasons. Perhaps they feel they are doing the right thing. Such action can make people very afraid, anxious and even quite ill. I am not saying we should not be cautious or realistic but we must be very careful about boosting fear.

We put the issue of people using firearms to Muintir na Tíre and the IFA, and both organisations argued this was very foolish. Talk of using firearms should not be encouraged and, on the contrary, it should be discouraged. I am concerned that when people hype the fear of crime, they might encourage people to use firearms. Who knows what the results will be? Somebody could end up shooting a relative or friend who is visiting. We must be very careful about this. It was pointed out by both Muintir na Tíre and the IFA that if somebody uses a firearm, the next time robbers come visiting, they might use firearms first, leading to an escalation. Let us cool this a bit. I am quite concerned about this issue. There are public meetings throughout the country with people talking about going to bed with guns. It is being encouraged, which is dangerous. It is not just me saying this as experts, the Garda, the farming communities and Muintir na Tíre all say it. Cool it down and do not hype it. We must be realistic and cautious as we do not want to drop our guard either. Sociologists and psychologists have told us that fear of crime is a real issue, with many studies done about it around the world, so I urge people to take it into account.

To deter a fear of crime, we need to have gardaí visible on the streets and in our communities. We need to see gardaí in cars and on bicycles and motorbikes. We need to see them calling to businesses, shops and farms, meeting people and advising them. We need them to get to know people and to become known by the people. Many colleagues have spoken about the old style of policing, when the garda was known by everybody and everybody knew everyone else, but that day is gone. We must be careful not to become too simplistic in our approach either. As Deputy Naughten has said, we are dealing with very sophisticated criminals who travel the highways and byways, using the motorway network to go into rural areas in particular to carry out crimes.

Listening to some people, we might think we are living in a crime-ridden country, but various reports indicate that Ireland is one of the safest places in the world to live. It is quite safe here in Ireland. Let us be careful about hyping this up too much.

I recently attended a meeting marking the 30th anniversary of the setting up of community alert, which happened in my area of Carrigtwohill. I spoke at it and it was clear that 30 years ago, the same kinds of fears and issues were being raised. At that time there was an extreme case, as some people were killed by robbers. Community alert was set up at the time and it spread throughout the country. It has been very successful and we should encourage it as much as possible. At the time, people used new bridges across the River Lee in Cork to get out of the city into rural areas but now they use the motorways to do the same kind of thing.

The number plate identification system used by gardaí is very good and we should have more of it. Intelligence is very important. Some colleagues have asked why a certain number of young men in particular are becoming involved with crimes like burglary. Deputy Mattie McGrath and others have spoken about intervening at an early stage. I draw the attention of the House to a number of organisations in this respect. There is Care After Prison in Dublin, which intervenes with prisoners before they leave prison and afterwards to try to keep them away from crime. So far, it has a high success rate. The Irish Association for the Social Integration of Offenders is also doing fantastic work. There is the Cornmarket Project in Wexford, which does similar work, and the Churchfield Community Trust in Cork, among others. These organisations very often work on a shoestring and I encourage the Minister, if she can, to give them a little more encouragement, recognition and some more funding. With a small amount of funding, they can do a huge amount of work, get in early and dissuade people from carrying on a life of crime. If we can do that, it would be of major benefit. This is a multifaceted issue.

A number of gardaí came to me to say they were retiring the following year but they do not want to retire. They would like to stay in the job for a couple of more years. Some colleagues have spoken about bringing retired gardaí back, but that might be problematic. Perhaps the Minister should consider the idea of allowing gardaí to stay in the job for a few years if they want to. Last week we had an interesting presentation at the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality in which people spoke about getting rid of the mandatory retirement age across the Civil Service. Why should somebody who is 65 have to retire and give up a job because of age? There are Ministers well over 65 who do not have to give up their jobs. Perhaps they will have to shortly, I do not know.

The point was made that if somebody who is 65 is hale and hearty and well able to do the work they are doing all their lives, and they want to continue, why should we not allow that? A number of gardaí have come to me and told me they did not want to retire at that age but would like to stay on another while if they could. There are pension entitlements and so on that would arise there, but these gardaí, who are slightly older, could probably man the stations and allow younger gardaí out onto the streets and onto the beat. It is another idea that might help and it should be considered.

Today we had the Courts Service before the justice committee. This is a service that often goes below the radar, but it does tremendous work. It has done a great deal of work with very much reduced resources over the last number of years. We find sometimes that there are delays in cases being taken in the courts. Very often, that is because the Courts Service does not have the resources it requires to expedite these cases. The ICT in the Courts Service certainly needs upgrading. That was the message we got today. Again, that would expedite and help to move cases on, so that we would not have people on remand for as long as is happening at the moment. That is something we need to do. We need to support them and I ask the Minister to have a look at the presentation that was made to the justice committee on the Courts Service. A small amount of support there could make a huge difference to much of this. We could get cases heard earlier and more efficiently and move them on. I am not saying anything about the Judiciary or anything like that - I do not go there - but certainly instances where cases are not heard for weeks and months should not happen. The fines Bill was mentioned and I know that is finally going to be working in the next number of weeks. Again, we would like to get an update on that. It is crucially important. We do not want to be sending people into jail for not paying fines, especially when we have the legislation here, but it is down to ICT and it is down to the Courts Service having the funding to make that happen. It is a small amount of money, I understand.

A mention was made earlier of livestock being stolen by robbers. We brought it up with the IFA when it was in before the committee. That is a serious matter, not only because people are losing livestock, but also because somebody somewhere is buying the meat and selling it. Looking at anything that is stolen, somebody somewhere is buying it. If somebody comes to a person's house and says "I have a bargain here for you", it may very well be stolen property. That comes back to the idea of having property identified, marked forensically and so on.

Coming back to the fear of crime, one of the issues that makes people feel safer is lighting. Public lighting in our towns and villages is particularly important. That should be looked at with the local authorities. Across the country we have joint policing committees and we could do a lot more with them. I have come across a situation recently where a number of people have come to me who are living beside the neighbour from hell. It is very hard and perhaps we need written protocols in these communities between the local authorities and the Garda regarding how certain issues are dealt with. I know that when somebody reports a crime, such as a burglary, they get a letter back saying "You have been a victim and we are very sorry about that", but they should get more than that. They should get more feedback as to how the investigation is progressing and what is going on. That might encourage people to report crime, as I said at the start.

We had a report a while ago about cash for gold and that report also needs to be acted on. If somebody comes into a shop to sell jewellery, it should be photographed, their identification should be taken and it should be recorded, so that if gardaí come back later with a photograph of stolen jewellery it can be matched up and maybe somebody can be trapped. That is an important issue. Again, in the committee, we said that should be done.

Community courts are something I come back to as a means of tackling low-level crime and allowing speedy access to justice. I know something is happening there and we need to work with that.

I am happy that this legislation is going through. This is a complex area and it is evolving. Criminals are getting more sophisticated: they are using ICT, the Internet, mobile phones and so on. They are using intelligence as well. We have to ensure the Garda has the manpower and the equipment to be ahead of them and to catch them out. I would be cautious of any form of vigilantism. I am concerned when I hear people talking about that.

Finally, Franklin D. Roosevelt said we had nothing to fear but fear itself. Not only do we have to tackle the crime, but we have to tackle the fear of crime and I caution people about making people afraid when there is no real need to do so.

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