Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I recall when I came into the office of Minister for Social Protection the deficit on the social insurance fund was €2 billion, which was a cause of great concern. Through very careful management we have actually reduced that deficit or, as some people in the media used to call it, the hole in the social insurance fund, to about €180 million, compared to the €2 billion plus left to us by the previous Government. If the Deputy is talking about expanding social insurance then he should be aware that first, it has to be funded and second, it has to be funded in a way that is appropriate for the people who are interested. The Deputy's first point was whether it could be made voluntary. I do not think there is any example anywhere of a voluntary social insurance scheme because the people more at risk would pay and the people who appear not to be at risk, much younger people, might choose not to pay at all. It would cause an enormous problem, even for contributory old age pensions that self-employed people receive for a 4% contribution. Let me be clear about this, I am all in favour of extending it but it will have to be contributed to. I do not know what is Fianna Fáil's attitude on this issue. Having almost crashed and wrecked the social insurance fund it now wants to do that again.

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