Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

During the debate earlier today Deputy Shortall said that telling the truth matters. It matters very much to people generally and to Members of this House. In the context of the Fennelly report, there is a disquieting contradiction between the Taoiseach's evidence and the evidence of the former Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality, Mr. Brian Purcell, the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, former Garda Commissioner, Martin Callinan and the Secretary General of the Taoiseach's Department, Mr. Martin Fraser. Taking the evidence of the two Secretaries General first, on the issue that the Taoiseach might not have confidence in the Garda Commissioner, they are very clear that it should be conveyed to him if the matter arose at the Cabinet the following morning. The Taoiseach's evidence is very non-committal on that and very unsatisfactory.

What is even more worrying is the evidence of the former Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore. Paragraph 31.31 of the Fennelly report states:

The Taoiseach, according to Mr Gilmore, went on to say that, if he were asked in the House if he had confidence in the Garda Commissioner, he would not be able to say that he had. He added that, if he said that he had confidence in the Garda Commissioner on the Tuesday, and information relating to these tapes emerged on the Wednesday, he would then be in a very difficult position.

Paragraph 31.32 states:

The evidence of Mr Gilmore, although it relates to what the Taoiseach said the following day, provides significant corroboration for the proposition that the Taoiseach did express doubts about whether he could continue to express confidence in the Commissioner. Although this conversation occurred after the Commissioner had retired, it is significant that, in an entirely different setting, the Taoiseach was speaking to Mr Gilmore of the issue very much in the same terms as are attributed to him by Mr Fraser, Mr Shatter and Mr Purcell on the evening before.

The Taoiseach's response to Mr. Justice Fennelly is very difficult to comprehend. He initially tried to suggest that he did not agree with the then Tánaiste. He then said he could not, as he stated, "recall the accuracy of what he said" and, later, that he could not verify whether they - the words attributed to him by Mr Gilmore - were the actual words that he used. He then returned to the theme of the necessity for him of being able to "defend", to use his word, the position.

I put it to the Taoiseach that it is of fundamental concern that his evidence is significantly at variance with the evidence of four very senior active personnel involved in this entire scenario. I ask the Taoiseach to, first, comment-----

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