John Halligan (Waterford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill, which I have read in detail. I am unhappy about the way the amendments have been presented to us here today. As has been previously said, it is not a proper way to do business in a democracy. I welcome the Bill, however. It has been said that low pay is endemic and entrenched in the Irish economy. Recent data from the OECD showed that the prevalence of low pay in Ireland is among the highest in the OECD. The relevant figure is 21.8%. It is interesting that a report on equality in Ireland that was recently published by Ellen Zentner of Morgan Stanley economists found that the United States has the highest proportion of low pay. This is very interesting. The relevant figure for the United States is 25%. It is shocking that Ireland is in second place with a figure of 21.8%. The figure for the United Kingdom is 21%. The figures for Switzerland, Finland and some of the Nordic countries are way below 10%.

The Irish Congress of Trade Unions recently told an Oireachtas committee that low-paid workers are more likely to suffer from a range of unfair employment practices that adversely effect their ability to earn a living. Following the Dunnes Stores strike over zero-hour contracts and the low levels of pay associated with such contracts, many of us are concerned about what kind of jobs and work practices we will be facing in Ireland over the coming years. It has to be accepted that a new breed of employers is expecting workers to work variable hours with uncertain contracts and on low pay. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions told the Oireachtas committee that any legislation has to include provisions that ensure employers cannot frustrate attempts to improve working conditions, such as efforts to establish employment regulation orders in sectors such as hotels and catering businesses. It is interesting that the Central Statistics Office has said that approximately 135,000 people are classed as part-time under-employed workers. These people would like to take up full-time work. It worries me that this Bill is providing for a couple of little get-out clauses that will allow employers to find a way out of paying what they should be paying in terms of low pay.

It is interesting that I have mentioned Switzerland because yesterday I attended a meeting attended by the Swiss ambassador. When I asked him a few questions about the Swiss economy, he made the interesting point that the payment of good wages is the best solution for dealing with poverty. This is why I mentioned that the figure of 10% in Switzerland is one of the lowest in the world. The Minister of State and I are aware that there is a cost factor for our economy if we keep people on low pay. The cost factor is huge if we keep people on unemployment benefit because it restricts what they can spend money on. People on low pay are exactly the same - they are restricted in how they can spend. There is a draw on the social welfare system because people have to get family income supplement, etc. There is also a draw on the health service because people need medical cards, etc. There is a huge pull out of the economy. It has been found in some countries that if people are paid reasonable wages, they can pay tax and contribute back into the economy. This can increase spending in the economy.

If we have hundreds of thousands of people who are restricted to barely surviving, just buying food and barely able to pay their television licence, electricity and gas bills, we are not contributing to growth in the economy. Everybody knows we need external investment and internal spending. However, we are putting a cap on hundreds of thousands of people who wish to, and can, contribute to the economy if they are given a chance to do so. The best way to do that is to give people a reasonable rate. It might be a cost in the short term, but employers and Governments should see that it could contribute to the coffers of whatever Government is in power as well as to small and medium sized businesses and enterprises, because people will have spending power. I realise the Minister of State means well, and I will not vote against the Bill as it is a big step forward. However, the position in Ireland at present, with 21.8% on low pay, is appalling. It is shocking that we are just behind America, and we all know how some employers can treat their workers in America. We are at nothing if we do not ensure in this Bill that employers will pay a decent wage.

I would like to have more time to speak on this but I must conclude. My determination of a decent wage is not a minimum wage. Again, we must look to the Nordic countries, where people talk about a liveable wage. This is not rhetoric from the left that people should be paid a liveable wage. There is good, sound economic reasoning for giving people a liveable wage. The best way to take people out of poverty is to give them work, but they must be given a decent, liveable wage that they can spend and with which they can have a quality of life. If the vast majority of people who are on low incomes, unemployed or just above the threshold of being impoverished had the chance of a job with a liveable wage, does anybody think they would not take it? Of course they would in order to improve their position. That is how we must go in the medium and long term. As the Swiss ambassador said yesterday, the best way of dealing with poverty is to give people a decent rate of pay. It lifts them out of poverty and helps the economy.

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