Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party) | Oireachtas source

That is my response to what the Minister was saying.

I will speak to amendment No. 1 in my name to amendment No. 20. It is a very clear amendment, tabled by me and Deputies Joe Higgins and Ruth Coppinger. We propose, in the third line of paragraph (a), proposed to be inserted by section 42(a), to delete the words "or more than one". Currently the amendment reads, "Subject to paragraphs (b) and (c), the Minister may, on or before 31 December 2015, pursuant to a request from the Minister for Finance, make one, or more than one, payment from the Fund in the amount requested by the Minister for Finance". Why on earth do the Government and the Minister want to have the ability to make multiple payments from the local government fund to the Exchequer that can, in turn, be handed over to Irish Water? Why would there be a need for more than one payment and why can the Government not accept the amendment in order that, at the very least, only one transfer could be made? The Government has not made any reference previously to more than one payment being made. How many transfers does it intend to make in 2015? How many does it intend to make in 2016, 2017, 2018 and onwards? This is a very important question which the Government has failed to answer.

The second amendment to amendment No. 20 has also been tabled by me and Deputies Ruth Coppinger and Joe Higgins.

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We propose, in the fourth line of paragraph (a), proposed to be inserted by section 42(a), after "Finance", to insert "and approved by both Houses of the Oireachtas". Currently, it states that it can make one or more than one payment from the fund in the amount requested by the Minister for Finance. We would add the words "and approved by both Houses of the Oireachtas". That is a democratic check and accountability. It is saying that we will not today, later this evening, or whenever, sign up and give the power to the Minister to make one, more than one or 100 transfers as he or she, a he in this case, may wish. Instead, we are saying it would have to come before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

What is the problem? Why is the Government so scared of democracy? Why is it so scared of having this debate in a proper manner? Why is it so scared of having the ability of this House to debate the making of a payment? Why should the Dáil and the Seanad not have the right to examine the transfer of this serious amount of money? Why should we give the Minister for Finance carte blanchewithout a reference back to the Houses of the Oireachtas? This is a reasonable amendment. It is reasonable for the Government to accept it but instead it proposes not to do so. Unfortunately, this demonstrates the kind of respect which has and is being shown to democratic procedure in the course of this debate. It has also been demonstrated by the Government in its proposal regarding the power of the Minister for Finance in this area.

The third amendment Deputies Coppinger and Higgins and I have tabled is, in the second line of paragraph (c), proposed to be inserted by section 42(b), to delete "€540 million" and substitute "€1". The Government's amendment states, "The total amount of all payments made under paragraph (a) shall not exceed €540 million." We propose to change that to read, "The total amount of all payments made under paragraph (a) shall not exceed €1." The reason for that amendment is very simple. We do not believe that half a billion euro should be taken from the local government fund, handed to the Exchequer to, in turn, be handed to Irish Water. We are opposed to the section as a whole, but if a transfer has to be made, it should be a transfer of €1. How can the Government justify pumping more money - €500 million of car tax and other Exchequer funds - into the beast that is Irish Water? How can the Government justify it when it is trying to get people to pay water charges by using the rationale that they have not already paid them? The Minister interestingly admitted yesterday evening that they had paid them.

How can the Government justify that huge amount of money and transfer? Is it justified by the fact that payment levels are lower than previously expected or that they are effectively on the floor? Perhaps payment levels are below 50% and that is why the Government and Irish Water are refusing to give those figures despite our repeated requests. Why can the Government not accept that if it needs to make a transfer, it can make a transfer of up to €1 rather than €540 million? With our amendment the Government could make a transfer of less than €1. If it needed 50 cent, 60 cent or 70 cent, that transfer could be made within the framework of the amendment we have tabled. The Government has not put forward a good, clear argument as to why it has rejected that amendment at this stage. I am very interested to hear the Government's response and to respond to it in turn.

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