Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

There has been a problem for several years about those who are authorised to collect waste and those who are not. It is necessary to ensure that the system of penalties for those in breach of the licensing regulations is accurate. I am involved with Liberties Recycling which recycles clothes. It is mainly a community employment project which also tries to "recycle" people, those who have suffered from drug addiction. The company has a waste collection permit because when collecting second-hand clothes we end up collecting waste which we must then off-load. We have come across several sharp operators with no licence who cost us because they were continually robbing our clothing banks and those of many charities. In some ways, however, this amendment will make no difference to them because the charities regulation was never fully in place. People are familiar with the stickers that come into their letter boxes saying this or that charity will collect clothes. No such thing exists; it is often a fraud. This undermines those who go through the licensing process while those who try to comply with the law pay more for a small infringement than those who rob charities and others.

I heard it said earlier that a fine not exceeding €3,000 would not cause much worry to some of the big operators. I understand the logic behind it is that the penalty has to be commensurate with the possibility of a three, six or 12 month conviction. What action will be taken against companies which continue to breach the regulations? I understand what the Minister said but these companies often change their name and directors. Another company ends up being fined. As we have seen lately, some companies in Ireland seem to operate on several fronts at the same time although the general public sees a single company.

I am not saying there is no merit in this. These amendments should have been made to a different Bill where there was the opportunity to bring the stakeholders before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht to go through this. I know the Minister and the Department have examined this and that it has not come out of the blue but it is still a bad process.

There are other waste issues that need to be addressed. They are not addressed here and this is probably not the right place for them but in this city there is a huge amount of asbestos. There are small portions of it in houses built by Dublin City Council yet if a householder wants to remove it he or she must get a waste collector licensed just to collect asbestos, which requires a higher standard than the collection of normal waste. That means, however, that there is an extra cost involved and those people will break down the sheet of corrugated asbestos, creating a danger to themselves and everybody else, and dump it with their normal rubbish. There has been no specific programme by any Government to try to target the areas where there is asbestos in houses or in sheds beside those houses, or in old buildings. The owner of the house has to pay to remove the asbestos. In many cases people have bought houses from the local authority without knowing that there may be asbestos in them. I do not know whether if they were found to be dumping asbestos mixed with other waste it would be enough to say they did not know it was there and the maximum fine would be €3,000. There are differences in the nature of the breaches but the penalty is the same. For many companies €3,000 is not a huge amount of money. The €3,000 is to replace class A fines. I have argued with various Ministers for Justice that fines should be index-linked. This Minister might consider that too.

We have seen, when we have replaced laws that are over 20 years old, that the fines seem ridiculous because we have moved on in terms of money. The level of the fine set by the Minister here, which is €3,000, is not enough in some ways and is too much in others. However, in ten years time it will probably be minuscule as a fine yet the Minister is setting it in stone rather than looking to the future.

I hope the Minister will have the opportunity to respond to some of those questions. A lot more needs to be done in terms of ensuring whatever waste is collected is segregated properly. We must also do more in terms of recycling in Ireland, given much of the material is sent abroad for recycling, so that it is somebody else's problem. I know the companies pay for it-----

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