Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party) | Oireachtas source

-----and that the non-payment network in which I am involved, the We Won't Pay campaign, and the Right2Water campaign, are made up of anti-water charges campaigners, protesters, ordinary people involved in their local communities who have all regard for rule and reason. They are people who have been pinned to their collar and in some cases cannot afford to pay the water charges and in other cases refuse to pay on principle, but are part of the biggest social movement we have seen in this country for decades. The irony should not be lost on the House and the public of Deputies opposite referring to anti-democratic behaviour at the gates of the Parliament. Never mind the gates of the Parliament, let us look inside the Parliament and the way that this debate is being conducted. The debate will be guillotined at 9 o'clock. We will not get a chance to get through all of the amendments, but even if we agreed to stick to five minutes discussion on each and to get through them all, the point is that it is not proper scrutiny.

The point is that the amendments are not being scrutinised in any sense seriously. By not allowing a committee to examine them properly, the Government is not allowing space to scrutinise them. It is anti-democratic. The introduction of water charges, in contravention of the Labour Party's mandate, is also anti-democratic.

While amendment No. 21 places a legal obligation on everybody to register, the Minister's response is not 100% clear and I would like 100% clarity. His response suggests, incredibly, that the Government is introducing a legal obligation that carries no penalty for non-registration. I will deal with the penalties for non-payment, etc. later. I am not sure if it is normal to have a legal obligation that carries no penalty for non-compliance. Normally, laws go with sanctions for breaking them. I am interested in the Minister's returning to the point, not referring to other penalties that may apply. Although the amendment introduces a legal obligation to register with Irish Water, the amendments we have seen so far which effectively constitute a new Bill carry no penalty for non-registration. I would like 100% clarity on the matter.

It suits the Government to give the impression that water charges can be deducted from tenants' deposits. However, I asked the Minister to clarify - he did not answer - that where the bill was in the name of a tenant, the bill would follow the tenant. The bill cannot be deducted from the tenant's deposit. The landlord will not take it, has no incentive to take it and legally cannot do so. We need clarity on the matter before we vote on the amendments. The exception is a circumstance in which the landlord has not handed over the tenant's name or where the landlord puts the bill in his or her own name in short-term tenancies of a few months. In such a situation, in theory, it could be taken from the deposit under the tenancy agreement, but we need clarity. Where a landlord hands over the name, which he or she would have an obligation to do under the legislation, the bill will be in the tenant's name and, from then on, the landlord will have nothing to do with it and cannot reach in and deduct it from the tenant's deposit. As I suggested, the bill would follow the tenant without any reference to the landlord. I would like an answer from the Minister.

Incredibly, although nothing is incredible here anymore, the Minister claimed that, with others leading the non-payment campaign, who are proudly calling on people to boycott as a way to win, I am misinforming people about the consequences of not paying. He should read what we write, our leaflets, articles and the new frequently asked questions on the legislation which we have published. We are always explicitly clear about the penalties and consequences of non-payment. I will outline them and if I miss any, the Minister should feel free to add to them. We deal with people and the facts and show how the penalties and charges can be defeated.

By declining to register, people will miss out on the €100 conservation grant. The grant is a con. Although the Minister alleges that it will be paid for several years, I do not believe this. It is something to get people into the system. If the water charges remain, the grant will be discontinued. We all know that it has nothing to do with conservation. If the water charges are defeated, it will also be discontinued. There will be no penalties for non-payment until approximately July 2016, when a household with one adult will incur a penalty of €30 and a household with two adults or more will incur a penalty of €60. That is it. The Bill about which we will talk tomorrow and next week-----

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