Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am thankful for the opportunity to respond to the proposed amendments from colleagues. Amendments Nos. 5, 6, 16 and 18 all deal with the issue of access by retired persons to the industrial relations machinery of the State. Deputy Calleary's two amendments seek to address this by providing the definition of "worker" under the 1990 Industrial Relations Act, including retired persons. I am providing in amendments Nos. 19, 23 and 24 for the necessary amendments to the Industrial Relations Acts to provide for access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court for individual retired persons for the purpose of pursuing issues relating to the terms and conditions that pertained at the time of their retirement, and I will shortly address those amendments, which I flagged previously. Deputy Tóibín's amendment provides for a new section 20 to the Bill providing that the Minister may by regulation provide for a mechanism for representation by or on behalf of retired employees in regard to pension matters. Deputy Daly's amendment provides for a change to the definition of collective bargaining in Part 3 to include a reference to "a Retired Staff Association Organisation which represents the interests of former retired employees ... with the object of reaching agreement regarding Occupational Pension Schemes."

Furthermore, a number of Deputies raised the issue of pensioner groups having access on a collective basis to the State's industrial relations machinery when pursuing pension scheme grievances. I fully appreciate the concerns of retired and deferred members of pension schemes whose schemes are being restructured, particularly where restructuring would have an impact on existing or potential benefits. I am all too familiar with that issue. There are many former staff of the Irish airlines superannuation scheme, IASS, scheme resident in my constituency, and I have met them. This is an issue to which I have given very careful consideration and, in doing so, it is important that we all bear in mind that the industrial relations system in Ireland is voluntary in nature. That is how it has evolved. As regards access to the Labour Relations Commission and the Labour Court, that is a central point. Any fundamental change to that principle that established some kind of a mandated right to be part of the process would alter fundamentally the conduct of industrial relations in this country, but, as it stands, where changes to pension schemes are negotiated at individual company level, whether as a result of a crisis in a scheme or otherwise, the outcome of that engagement cannot of itself change the pension scheme. That is an important point to bear in mind. Any proposed changes to the scheme are effected through the trustees and rules of the scheme and are at the discretion of the party so designated in the rules and deeds of the scheme.

In terms of changes to pension schemes generally, Deputies will be aware that the trustees of a particular scheme are required by law to act in the best interests of all the members, be they active, deferred or pensioner members. Until recently, this has been done on an individual basis. As I have stated in this House previously in the context of Report Stage amendments to the Workplace Relations Bill, the matter has been given careful consideration and, as a consequence, the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection has recently introduced regulations and approved amendments to guidance issued by the Pensions Authority to provide for the recognition by the trustees of a pension scheme of groups representing the interests of pensioners and deferred members of pension schemes. These significant changes mean that all groups representing the interests of the various categories of pension scheme membership are treated the same in the context of provisions in the Pensions Act. The changes to regulations will require that trustees of a pension scheme notify the groups representing the interests of retired and deferred members where the trustees of a scheme propose to apply to the Pensions Authority to restructure scheme benefits under section 50 of the Pensions Act. This notification affords the representative group an opportunity to make a submissions to the trustees of the scheme in regard to such proposals.

In addition, the Pensions Authority is now required to notify groups representing the interests of scheme members where the Pensions Authority proposes either to issue a unilateral direction under section 50 of the Pensions Act to the trustees of a scheme to restructure scheme benefits, or to wind up a pension scheme under section 50B of the Pensions Act. This notification affords the representative group an opportunity to make representations to the Pensions Authority in relation to such proposals, and these regulations also give the representative group the right to appeal such direction by the Pensions Authority to the High Court on a point of law. It is within this framework, rather than through the State's industrial relations machinery, that an appropriate collective approach should be and can be effected, and that has been given effect. Accordingly, I cannot accept amendments Nos. 5, 6, 16 and 18.

Moving on to amendments Nos. 19, 23 and 24, they will provide for the necessary amendment to the Industrial Relations Act to provide for access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court by individual retired persons for the purpose of pursuing issues relating to the terms and conditions that pertained at the time of their retirement. Access to the Industrial Relations machinery of the State is governed by the definition of "worker" in section 23 of the Industrial Relations Act 1990, which provides, inter alia, that a "worker" means "any person aged 15 years or more who has entered into or works under a contract with an employer." In addition, section 3 of the Industrial Relations Act 1946 provides that a dispute between a worker and an employer only arises if it is "connected with the employment or non-employment, or the terms of employment, or the conditions of employment, of any person."

Legal advice received by the Labour Court on a number of occasions suggests that a person who is retired cannot be regarded as a worker and cannot be party to a trade dispute capable of investigation by the court. Where a person is retired, he or she cannot, at present, have a dispute concerning his or her employment or non-employment. Accordingly, a matter which arose prior to an individual's retirement and which was referred to the Labour Relations Commission or Labour Court prior to the individual's retirement and not referred after the retirement date may not be investigated. In practice, this has given rise to a situation in which persons are unable to address any work-related issues that may have come to light post-retirement.

Both the Labour Relations Commission and the Labour Court are of the view that a time-bound extension of the definitions of "worker" and "trade dispute" of the Industrial Relations Acts 1990 and 1946, respectively, would allow such issues to be processed efficiently and at little cost through the State industrial relations machinery. With this in mind, and more generally in light of the view that the requirements of good employment practice would dictate that retired persons have a facility by which work-related grievances can be examined on their merits, an amendment of the definition of "worker" within the meaning of section 23 of the Industrial Relations Act 1990 is proposed in order to facilitate such access.

Accordingly, amendment No. 23 provides for the necessary amendment of the definition to cover situations where the employment has ceased. Amendment No. 19 provides for the necessary accompanying amendment to the definition of "trade dispute" within the meaning of section 3 of the Industrial Relations Act to include a reference to a dispute or difference between employers and a workers where the employment has ceased.Amendment No. 24 makes provision for time limitation on the access to be provided. In line with the provisions of most employment rights statutes, imposing a time limit on the bringing of claims is proposed. This would be necessary to avoid the Labour Court having to deal with stale claims being raised, which an employer may find impossible to defend due to the passage of time. In this context, a limit of six months after the employment has ended due to retirement, or after the date on which the event to which the dispute relates took place, accords, whichever is the earlier. A possibility of a further extension of six months where reasonable cause is shown is proposed. Work-related issues will exclude matters that come within the remit of the Pensions Ombudsman.

Amendment No. 23 also provides for an amendment to the definition of "worker" under section 23 of the 1990 Act. The change of reference amends "a member of staff of an education and training board" to "a teacher employed by an education and training board." This amendment would allow officers of education and training boards other than teachers access to the industrial relations machinery and reflects the position that, for some years now, industrial relations issues have been addressed on the basis that matters can be referred to the industrial relations bodies on an ad hocbasis. Teachers in education and training boards will continue to be served by a scheme of conciliation and arbitration.

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