Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left) | Oireachtas source

The fact that less people are offering on this debate and that others are not taking their allocated time is a reflection not of the fact that this is not an important issue or that it is a controversial issue but that it is an absolute no-brainer. There is nobody who could oppose, on principle, a Bill that seeks to ensure that no person, regardless of where they work, is discriminated against on the basis of any of the nine grounds contained in the existing employment equality legislation. That is all that this Bill is about. It is entirely in keeping with the overwhelming and resounding result on the same-sex marriage issue earlier this year.

The exemption in section 37(1) of the existing Employment Equality Act has been described by the INTO and Deputies here as a threat to LGBT teachers and as having a silencing affect on them in terms of preventing them from talking openly about their lives, partners, sexual orientation and so on. This is not only about LGBT people. It is also not a million miles from the Eileen Flynn case in terms of that woman having been dismissed from her employment in a school because she was not married to the parent of her child. This section most definitely needs to be amended and this needs to be done before September next in order that the rights of teachers, doctors, nurses and others working in our services sector are protected.

As I said, this is not just an LGBT issue. Teachers who, like me, are atheists similarly believe that the existing legislation prevents them from speaking out about their beliefs. While the provision might not ever have been officially invoked to fire a teacher or deny a promotion, as stated by other Deputies, it has, undoubtedly, acted as a chilling affect and it needs to be changed. For that reason, I am very happy to support this Bill.

I note that the Socialist Party has said in correspondence that it is open to amendments on Committee Stage in terms of any potential conflicts with the Constitution and so on, which is important. I welcome that. What goes on within a private organisation is one matter but how that translates into the functioning of essential public services and access to facilities that everybody needs is an entirely different matter. I am not bothered by what any religious organisation does within its own ranks, no more than I would be bothered if, for example, the Socialist Party had an accountant who was a member of Fine Gael and that caused problems inside its ranks. I believe that would be a matter for the particular organisation to deal with.

This legislation deals with the removal of instances where it is lawful to discriminate against people. Sometimes it is lawful to discriminate against people. I am probably the only person in this House who is currently being investigated by the Equality Tribunal. I am being investigated because when a member of the public contacted me to make a complaint against an alleged paedophile, in his opinion, who was working on a gay pride campaign I told him that if he was aware of any criminal activity he should take it up with the Garda Síochána. He then followed this up with what I considered to be - I am sure most people would agree - homophobic commentary. In his opinion, I failed to represent his views and he took a complaint against me to the Equality Tribunal on the grounds that I discriminated against him for his religious beliefs. I have no idea what his religious beliefs are. I told him that I had been elected on a platform of fully supporting equality for gay people and I had no intention of promoting any views that are against that and that if he was not happy with that democracy then he did not have to vote for me. Believe it or not, that matter is currently being investigated by the Equality Tribunal. It is la-la stuff as far as I am concerned.

The reason we are discussing this issue and the reason this Bill is necessary is rooted in the fact that the State abdicated its responsibility to provide access for citizens to essential public services and handed over the running of hospitals, schools, the welfare of citizens and so on to the Catholic church at the time the State was founded. That is the root of this scenario. That abdication has left us in a situation whereby 90% of primary schools have a Catholic ethos. It also gave rise to the imprisonment and abuse of women in the Magdalen laundries and of children in residential institutions, symphysiotomy and our hypocrisy towards abortion and so on. That is the legacy of this State having farmed out its responsibilities to a private organisation with its own rules, its own laws and its own ways of doing things, which are at variance with the viewpoint of many citizens of this State. While I would do time to defend the rights of any citizen to advocate and promote their own religious beliefs, similarly, I would expect those people to not have that imposed on the State welfare system. It is this dysfunctional relationship between the Church and State in Ireland, which has been toxic, that is at the root of this issue.

I echo the point made on a number of occasions by my colleague Deputy Joan Collins that what we need to do is radically change the Constitution rather than tinker around with a lot of these measures. I am not putting the blame solely at the door of the Church because it benefitted the State to abdicate many of these responsibilities to the Church. We have seen this where Church and State combined, including in the attempts to stifle at birth Noel Browne's mother and baby scheme and so on. The power of the Church has waned but we are still dealing with that legacy. As I said, that is what is at the root of this issue.

The Labour Party Deputies are all patting themselves on the back for their achievements in terms of the delivery of social progress but this measure has not yet been delivered. In regard to schools, in 2012, Deputy Ruairí Quinn when Minister for Education and Skills told us that the process of divesting schools from Catholic patronage was to begin immediately. At one stage he talked about divesting 50% of all primary schools but for all the fire and brimstone the Church has not to date handed over a single school to another patron. Although it did merge two schools in Basin Lane in Dublin in 2014 to allow Educate Together to move into a vacant building and it also handed over another building in Castlebar that had been closed for 20 years, that is hardly much progress.

We must be honest about this and must go much further. If the Government was serious about equality, we would be tackling that issue in a much more serious way. We would also be tackling issues with our health service and the ridiculous scenario whereby the Mater hospital could threaten not to comply with the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act because performing abortions goes against its ethos. That threat was never followed through, but the fact the hospital administrators could even say that is ridiculous and demonstrates there is no place for religion in any of these public services.

It is important we are discussing this issue. The ball is firmly in the Government's court to deliver on this, to end the chilling effect and give a voice to what is clearly the wish of the people. I say this firmly in the belief that if the church wants to run a school, a hospital or whatever for itself and its followers, and it funds that, that is entirely up to it. The State should provide on a secular, non-denominational basis for all essential public services needed by all citizens, from the cradle to the grave. That is a much more acceptable model and is one that is in keeping with the wishes of Irish citizens.

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