Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I again thank Deputies Mary Lou McDonald, Dara Calleary, Joe Costello and Eamonn Maloney for raising this issue. Many of the people concerned have been employed in Clerys for all of their working lives, in many cases alongside family members. Among the group of people I met this morning was a man who had more than 40 years service and who told me that Clerys was his family. We can all appreciate the level of commitment of the staff.

The people who are shamed and disgraced by what has happened in this case are those who took part in the arrangements to do this, not Clerys' workers. Respect for the workers is exceptionally high among the people of Dublin and Ireland. There are many good employers in the country who must be appalled at what has happened to a group of workers in an entirely undeserved way. There has been a huge amount of positive contact between trade unions and employer organisations to ensure we will have a level of decency and regulation to provide workers with decent terms and conditions. Further measures are also being introduced. There is legislation before the Dáil on collective bargaining which has been sought by the trade unions for many decades and that I am confident will have the support of most Members and parties.

The people who should be ashamed of themselves are those who set out to approach this issue in a particularly technical manner. We do not yet know the full details of what happened. We have read in the newspapers about various stratagems that were employed. As I said, we will be examining all of the issues involved. I know that my colleagues, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Employment, Deputy Richard Bruton, and the Minister of State, Deputy Gerald Nash, will be extremely concerned that legislation introduced by that Department could be used in this way to circumvent people's genuine rights. As Minister for Social Protection, I am concerned about the implications in terms of the social insurance fund, to which everybody who pays PRSI contributes, in order that it will be available when needed. We will be examining this matter to see whether all aspects of the relevant legislation have been complied with and whether that legislation needs to be strengthened.

I agree with Deputy Joe Costello that it is important this not be allowed to happen again. We will have to examine what happened in this case. We will, for example, need to examine the tax position to see whether over-aggressive taxation measures were involved. I have heard it suggested this might have been arranged, perhaps in secret - almost certainly so - over a number of months. I do not know whether that is correct because we do not yet have all of the information. My Department was informed informally today by the mediators that all of the staff had been made redundant and that P45s would issue this week.

Those here who have had some involvement in labour law and this type of situation will know this initial information allows for the issuing of the redundancy notices, all of which are part of a process, in terms of the legislation, in the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. I undertake that all of the matters will be addressed as quickly as possible in accordance with the law. It is now possible, with all the reforms we have made in the Intreo system, to pay people relatively quickly. That was not always possible, but we can now do that as a result of the new systems. I hope the Department will be able to do this over the next few days.

We will liaise closely with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, but our Department pays out the redundancy payments. Reference was made to Vita Cortex and other cases. In the case of Vita Cortex, once the Department of Social Protection got the required information and once the relevant requirements were complied with, the workers were paid within a very short period. Hopefully in this case, if the requirements are met as quickly as possible, we can make arrangements to meet the entitlements of the workers in regard to redundancy as quickly as possible.

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