John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Listening to the debate, I cannot help but think of that quotation:

Oh, what a tangled web we weave

When first we practise to deceive!

Many of the Members in this debate have put forward their take on why we are here this evening debating this, how it happened and what the response should be. My take on it is that we are here because there is no political leadership. The Government was elected on the promise of reform and doing things differently. The country responded to its manifesto and its declaration that we were heading for a new Ireland and that we were going to be open and transparent but the opposite is the case. When it got into office, it showed no real political leadership. There has been no change in how politics is done. That is why we are here today.

The Department of Finance, in particular, which was involved in giving advice in the lead-up to the banking crisis, has proved already to have been weak in its position at the very least. In the context of the lead-in to this issue and IBRC, it showed no leadership whatsoever. It is a Department that was not driven politically to ensure that the civil servants in turn did what they were supposed to do. If all of them had done their job, the minutes would have been examined, analysed and filed appropriately. Bearing in mind that this is a Department that misplaced €3.6 billion at one stage, I am not surprised that it lost a few documents and still cannot find them. That is not good enough. The Department is charged with doing a job on behalf of the State and it was charged with ensuring there was a relationship, regardless of what understanding was there. It should have been there, looking after the interests of the State. It is my opinion, having listened to the debate and having had an exchange with the officials at the Committee of Public Accounts, that those in the Department did anything but. They left it to those they thought were going to do the business and who they thought knew more than they did and they ignored their responsibility in this, which was to look after the value for money issues and the governance issues the State relied on them to handle.

The other issue that comes across clearly in this matter is the work of this Parliament. It is not the first time that we have had a debate about the powers of this House and its response to issues. When those in government were on this side of the House, its members, particularly the Labour Party Deputies, constantly complained through the Whip to the Ceann Comhairle about the quality of the replies to parliamentary question and that one simply could not get information from parliamentary questions. It is not just this Government but a whole series of previous Governments that allowed that to happen and allowed this House to become totally irrelevant. There is now a corruption within the system that allows this to happen and allows individuals to get away. The only thing that is ever blamed is the system - that is, there has been a system failure here.In all the scandals in this State, I have never seen an official identified and sanctioned or fired. Every single Thursday, before the Committee of Public Accounts, there is a litany of failure of the State to look after its assets, to behave in a way that would save money for the taxpayer and to endeavour to get value for money for the taxpayer. This is a typical example of a State that is out of control and of systems that are simply corrupt and do not deliver on behalf of the citizens of this country. While that is happening, the Government is at war with the citizens. It is bullying the citizens of this country through various Departments and agencies. We all know this.

We can go to the special investigations unit in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, take account of IBRC and how it has dealt with its clients and we can take a look at NAMA. I read the correspondence that comes before me and the one word that has been written in most of those letters of complaint is the word "bullying". The bullying and the harassment that the people who are dealing with NAMA are put through is simply unacceptable and it should be stopped if real political leadership is being given by the Government relative to the interest and protection of citizens who are trying to get back on their feet after the greatest collapse we have seen in the history of this State. The banks have been helped out and now we have this issue with IBRC, and it is all taxpayers' money, but what about the individual mortgage holder or the individual in business who was distracted from his or her core business? What about the small and medium enterprises, SMEs, within IBRC? They have received no opportunity to debate or to have a conversation about their difficulties in order to get back into the game and be productive again for the economy. We owe it them to explain what this corruption is all about. What is happening in the Irish Administration that leads us to this point of an inquiry time and again? The issue of the answers given to parliamentary questions has been repeatedly stated. That issue might seem insignificant on the scale of what is happening with IBRC, but if this House were meaningful and we were getting replies, and were able to hold people to account, the need for an inquiry might not have arisen in the first place. Ministers might have officials who took politics in this country seriously. They might have politicians in government who took their position seriously.

Deputy Doherty raised a matter this evening and I would like the Minister to clarify it. Is the issue the Deputy raised part of this inquiry or is it not?

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