Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his amendments. Amendments Nos. 39 and 41 seek to make the appointment by the authority of its staff and the determination of their duties subject to "consultation with professional bodies". This would be contrary to the independence of the regulatory authority in its functions, which we have enhanced as desired by the professional bodies and Deputies through a series of substantial amendments. To make the authority amenable in its staffing or other operational decisions to those interests whom it is purportedly regulating on an independent basis would be self-defeating.

In any event, the legal professional bodies are among the nominating bodies for membership of the authority and their successful nominees will have a subsequent voice in its decision making. Staff will be employed independently by the regulatory authority and the professional bodies will not have an employer relationship in this regard.

The staff of the new authority have to be seen to be independent of the professional bodies to maintain public confidence in the new regulatory regime. This would also make it untenable for the regulatory authority to have to consult with those very bodies it is regulating in the making of key staffing decisions and in the subsequent designation of their tasks and duties. We can see the potential conflict of interest that might arise there.

Under this Bill, members of the public will no longer go to the Law Society or to the Bar Council with their complaints in the first instance, as happens at present. Instead, they will make such complaints through the legal services regulatory authority. Deputy Mac Lochlainn will, therefore, appreciate how important it will be that the new legal service regulatory authority be independent of the legal professions and of the Government in the performance of its functions. The independence of the new regulatory authority and of its attendant complaints and disciplinary tribunal procedures is, therefore, fundamental to their success and to the avoidance of any perception among members of the public that complaints about lawyers are being dealt with by lawyers themselves, including their own representative bodies.

At the same time, it is clear that the proposed reforms to the legal professional conduct regime will have implications for a number of existing and appropriately-skilled staff who currently deal with public complaints made through the legal professional bodies. This concerns approximately 18 full-time equivalent posts in the Law Society along with a small number of posts at the Bar Council. Deputies will recall that there was a detailed discussion of this specific aspect with the former Minister, Deputy Shatter, in January 2014 in which Deputy Mac Lochlainn himself was involved. On that occasion, broad support was given by Deputies from across the parties to finding a workable solution which can reconcile the competing human resource and policy considerations involved. This is something which the Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, has under active and ongoing consideration.

This brings me to the third amendment, which is Deputy Mac Lochlainn's amendment No. 40, which concerns the possible transfer of those complaints staff of the Law Society and the Bar Council who currently administer their respective complaints regimes. As I stated, Deputy Fitzgerald is continuing to consider the possible options for resolving this situation. For example, there are issues around pension and redundancy rights and liabilities that could have serious cost implications for the Exchequer. However, these human resource aspects of the establishment of the new legal services regulatory authority are not solely in the hands of the Department of Justice and Equality. They will, therefore, have to continue to be negotiated in detail with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform which has overall responsibility in these areas.

In assuring Deputies that the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, is actively looking into these complex and sensitive human resource issues, she would ask that this be facilitated by the withdrawal of the proposed amendment pending the identification and negotiation of a viable solution which will be brought forward at a later stage. Any amendments in this regard will come back before the Houses for due consideration.

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